Triumph Dolomite Sprint/SAAB B engine

[max]

Yeah, just look at the Viaduc de Millau Bridge
[image removed]

(Channeling J. Clarkson)...
Not all British engineering is ham-fisted and done in a shed by a man named Steve.

The Milau viaduct runs between France and Spain, only the architect was British aparently.

[Jordan]

Yeah, just look at the Viaduc de Millau Bridge
[image removed]

(Channeling J. Clarkson)...
Not all British engineering is ham-fisted and done in a shed by a man named Steve.

The Milau viaduct runs between France and Spain, only the architect was British aparently.

Right... he was talking about British engineering.

[max]

Yeah, just look at the Viaduc de Millau Bridge
[image removed]

(Channeling J. Clarkson)...
Not all British engineering is ham-fisted and done in a shed by a man named Steve.

The Milau viaduct runs between France and Spain, only the architect was British aparently.

Right... he was talking about British engineering.

RIght... the architect was british. Not the engineer.

[jeroensprint]

Hello, I'm new here and i'm not quite saab related but fully into race and rally Triumph Dolomites. Together with some friends we take these engines serious and have a reliable 225hp output. Many years of racing and modification of these engines there are no factory faults anymore.( and there were a lot..)

But i'm very frustrated because of the typical engine failures what cannot be solved.........

The idea is using Saab engineblocks for the Triumphs. Can anyone tell me the exact types and years of the saab engine's with the slanted headstuds?

Triumph did bore the engine too deep. The cilinders are bored into the threadholes of the mainbearings. That is about 2cm too deep. EVERY TRIUMPH ENGINE has this feature and after dismantling many, many engines i gave up hope to find a decent one.

The solution we now have is an engine brace. We machine new mainbearing caps that have the same heigth as the face where the sump is. Re-bore the mainbearing holes where the shell's go in. Then fit a metal brace that goes between the sump and the engine block. Longer bolts which go through the brace, then the mainberaingcaps into the block and it does not break anymore. That is the main problem. Because the threaded holes are bored in they break.

But this solution of bracing the engine takes a lot of time and is very heavy. Also the engine sits higher in the car.

Does anyone maybe has some pictures of these saab engines taken trough a cilinderhole and from the inside at the bottom of the cilinderbore?

Thank you,
Jeroen

The foto shows the crack what occurs in the Triumph engines

[Geoff]

Welcome, thanks for joining.

69-71 SAAB 99s used the Triumph engine, purchased from Triumph. I would assume that those engines would have the same issue you have with yours since the manufacturer is the same.

In 1972 SAAB started making their own engines and as far as I know everything will line up between the SAAB block and a Triumph head (but I've never tried) with the exception of the head studs. With the SAAB engine the head studs went to a normal straight vertical configuration.

The closest SAAB engine to the Triumph engine would be the B engine which was made from '72 to '80 in SAAB 99s and 900s. Apparently the sump pan bolt pattern is different than the Triumph so you'd need a different sump pan but one from a SAAB 9000 might work (SAAB 99s and 900s have the engine under the transmission so no sump pan).

The same slant configuration was used in the 900 up through 1993 but in 1981 the engine was revised to have a belt driven water pump and cam-driven distributor as well as the oil pump driven direct off the crank shaft.

[jeroensprint]

Hello Geoff,

Thank you for the info. I did speak some Saab specialist or parts suppliers here in Holland.
They could not tell me the exact what i needed to know. I've been told that all the Saab engine's were made at Saab and not by Triumph. Only the designing they did together and the manufacturing was seperate. I think it is not an option to modify a later engine because of the weakening around the studs. With a Dolomite Sprint engine the longer slanted studs are also holding the camshaftbearingcaps.

Today i emailed a man in Holland who has many used engines an i hope he has the 69-71 ones so i can take a look. The only thing i can hope for is that the 1,7 liter with the smaller bore does not touch the area around the holes. The Triumph 1,8 have more "flesh" left in the engineblock so we rebore the 1,8 to 2,0 so less damage. Maybe the 1,7 is a blessing for for us.

Can you see the little crack around the hole? Has no Saab this at all with the same design? Engines above the 200hp limit do crack, the only question is when.

Thanks again for the info,
Jeroen

[airsweden]

Havn't heard of anybody squeezeing 200hp from the SAAB 1.7 version of that motor... but not saying it hasn't been done.

I think since that engine was quickly reworked by SAAB-Scania into the "B", most folks just never needed to bother much with the early Triumph version.

Too bad the SAAB "B" isn't a direct, bolt-in swap for you guys. The blocks are rugged as hell and should be pretty easy to find. I think the end plate and oil pan is where you would need to get creative. That and fact that basically only 8 valve heads exist. Otherwise it would be a great experiment. I have wondered what the minimum effort would be to mate the Triumph gearbox to a SAAB "B" motor. If you find out, please let us know.

[jeroensprint]

Hello, there's also a thing called homologation..

I think the B serie is not an option. However i think it is not difficult to fit a Triumph gearbox to it. A Dolomite sprint has an extra adapter ring fitted to have the TR6 type gearbox fitted. Also a longer inputshaft.

The 200 hp is also only with the sprint 2.0 16 engine. The works rally cars had 190 and with the modern materials and a better look than the Triumph people at the time you can have a little more. The most important is that our engine's stay in one piece and in the '70 they were not. Triumph used for their race engine's the same cast but only from chrome/mobyldene so that was their secret. These blocks are not traceable anymore ofcourse.

On the drawing you can see that the 2 liter Triumph engine's are bored too deep. When it was bored 2cm less it was still deep enough. You can look into the treaded holes where the bolts of the mainbearingcaps go in. The 1.8 engine do have this less because the bore is smaller. What i do hope is that the 1.7 do not tough this area because of the smaller bore than the 1.8 Triumphs. When finding a good 1.7 we can rebore to 2.0 but not soo deep an have the treaded holes area intact.

This week i will meet a man who has lots of Saab engine's and i will see or the 1.7 is useable for our competion purposes.

I will keep you informed about the progress.

Jeroen

[Geoff]

We don't have to deal with homologation here in the US. At least for rally there is only reference to it but nobody really uses it.

I haven't taken apart one of the Triumph motors from a SAAB but the B engine is bored straight through to the crank shaft. Maybe the bolt spacing for the main bearings is wider in the B engine? I drew on your picture (in red) to represent the B engine bore.

Hopefully the 1.7L will work for you. As the saying goes "one person's trash is another person's treasure"

[jeroensprint]

Hello, biggest joke in times.

This car:

1.jpg (29.76 KiB) Viewed 9062 times

2.jpg (33.56 KiB) Viewed 9063 times

4.jpg (35.04 KiB) Viewed 9062 times

I did see this car this year in the UK. It was very interesting because my friend has a complete engine of this car and lot's of spares. It is a sprint based engine with dry sump and fuel injection what they raced in the seventies. The engineblock was a special casting what was a little different than a normal casting.

After seeing lots of Saab engines by now i know for sure this car had a SAAB B engineblock.
I think they used a Saab casting and did machine it themselves because it has the slant drilled holes for the Triumph studs. That's because this engine stayed in one piece....

THEM BASTARDS.

[Geoff]

Now all you have to do is find a SAAB B engine that never got machined!

[jeroensprint]

Yes i think so

Not gonna happen.
This sprint engine (all Triumph parts) for a customer was ready yesterday. It has a 180 hp on the rearwheels at 7300 rpm. An average of 175 hp available from 5900-7300. In this configuration the Triumph engineblocks stay in one piece. More power does crack the block and a brace is needed, or a Saab block????? .
We have a special mounting rig to have the engine run in and tuned on the dynojet so the customers get a ready to fit engine.

http://sprint.smugmug.com/Cars/Forum/11 ... 8253_pgawM

Jeroen

[Geoff]

Sounds awesome!
We should send some SAAB engines over for preparation.

The turbocharged SAAB rally B engines were ~300hp.

[fulviacorsa]

The interesting part is that it had a 16v head

I don't ever remember seeing one of these cars (probably not sold in the US?) but maybe FulviaCorsa could find some parts from one and use them for his car in Greece

Thanks Geoff. Just see the post.

[madwelshman]

The Dolomite Sprint 16v engine was 2.0 litre, the same cylinder block as the Triumph TR7, which was 8v and produced 105bhp (if I remember correctly)
Regarding fitting the Sprint 16v head to a B block, didn't Saab make the spacing between cylinder bores greater when they designed the B? Therefore, the 16v head wouldn't fit.

Will