TIG Welders

[KPAero]

Id like to learn how to TIG, and have been looking at used machines. I keep thinking of instances where it would be a useful skill/piece of equipment. Anyway, new machines are realistically out of my price range. If I could by new I think this would be the ideal machine for me: http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig ... del=M00337

They can be found for 1,700 online new, and miller is currently offering a $150 rebate, but unfortunately, I think it would be a mistake to spend that much on a welder at this point. So used it is. I like the diversion 180 for it's size, ac/dc capabilities and the 110v option would be nice for portability. I just don't have enough space for a large industrial machine, and realistically I will end up moving it around based on whats in the garage at a given time, so Im looking for something smaller, and it needs to be able to do ac and dc, and obviously price is an influence. So any recommendations on what to look for?

Any thoughts on this? http://southcoast.craigslist.org/tls/2673266280.html
He said in an email that he also has an argon bottle, Im assuming its included. I also always assume their is some room for negotiation when dealing on craigslist. I've found mixed reviews about the econotig, not so much for reliability issues, but people feeling like they "outgrow" the machine. I feel like for what I need to do, it will be alright for awhile.

[Luke]

The diversion looks like a nice machine for the money. I have a syncrowave 200 and its a great machine, you can always use more power for aluminum, but it does the job for me. Its heavy as hell for its size though.
As you already know, you'll need an AC for aluminum and DC for steel. The one thing I can't tell looking at the spec's on the diversion is the waveform for the AC. You really want a squarewave for aluminum, with AC the more square the wave is, the more time is spent at the full amperage and not cycling up and down from + to -. It makes a big difference in the stability of the arc as well. The econotig is not squarewave. I've used a friends non squarewave tig and mine makes welding aluminum so buttery in comparision.
You can prob get by with an air cooler torch, they are bulky as they need to have enough thermal mass to absorb the heat. I have an aircooled, but i'd really like a water cooled torch, they are so much smaller and when doing big aluminum projects i have to stop periodically to let the torch cool down to where I can even hold it with a gloved hand.
Keep you eyes peeled for a used unit and you may luck out - that said, the machines seem to really hold their value and most people know what they are worth.

[DrewP]

For beginning, I'd say that the only feature you absolutely should have is a machine with high-frequency arc start, so you don't have to deal with trying to scratch start everything - it's hard.

If you haven't seen the site http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ yet I highly recommend you check it out - Jody is extremely knowledgeable and puts out well made weekly videos on equipment review, technique, setup and jigging, lots of cool stuff. His little articles on different aspects of welding are really handy also.

That used Miller Econotig looks like a great machine to learn on for the money. Think of Miller like you think of BMW's - they're one of the only high end pieces of equipment that hold their value, there's a good chance in 2-3 years if you want to trade up you could get your $650 back. That's not true with most other brands.

Like Luke said, you probably won't be able to change waveform, AC frequency, or AC balance, but if you don't do much ally it won't really matter, especially if you're just learning anyway, it'll just confuse you.

I bought an Everlast Powertig 250, it's an inverter machine and has basically the exact same features as the Miller Dynasty line at about half the price. I like it a lot, but it's still not cheap, I paid about $1400 shipped for mine, but I already had a bottle and a regulator.

I have an older Syncrowave 200 with a water cooler at work without most of the optional AC arc balancing, and it's a freight train, it'll weld pretty much 24/7 at nearly 100% duty cycle at max amperage.

That's one other thing to compare about cheap machines, see at what amperage supply you can no longer run it at 100% duty cycle, I think my Everlast will do up to about 180A DC 100%, and up to 250A DC at like 85%, which is REALLY high, usually by max amperage you only see it rated to around 50% duty on the cheaper or more entry level machines.

[KPAero]

I've spent a some time on weldingtipsandtricks, definitely some good info there. The econotig does have the high frequency start, but it does not have the different AC adjustments or squarewave. The duty cycle also isn't that great, but if I have to deal with that to spend less money thats fine for now. I talked to the seller and he has agreed on 550 for the welder, and tank. I would like to be able to weld some aluminum, things like intake tubing, maybe weld some AN fittings on an oil cooler etc.
Any thoughts on this for a first TIG welder, good deal, or should I keep looking?

[Luke]

That seems like a good deal, like drew mentioned, they really keep their value. I would think that in 6 months if you decide to upgrade you'd be able to keep the tank and still get all your money out. In the mean time I trust you will have a lot of fun with it and with some practice you'll be able to lay some really nice welds.

[DrewP]

Ditto, that sounds like a great price for what should be a very nice little machine. The Miller high frequency start is really well developed and should be easy to learn on.

[KPAero]

I went and picked it up yesterday. Everything is in pretty good shapes and it seams to work well. Im excited to get it home and start using it. The guy I bought it from said he used to work as a nuclear welder, and he bought this machine new to use at home, but was selling some of his stuff as he has had back troubles and doesn't use it much anymore. It appeared like he probably took pretty good care of his stuff though, which was nice to see. It also came with a nice cart he had made, and a nice box to keep everything in.

[DrewP]

Good score, let us know how it goes.

[KPAero]

Finally had a chance to get this set-up and running. I only ended up playing with it for around an hour, but I felt like I was starting to get a feel for it. I was just practicing on some roll cage tubing scraps and some 16ga sheet without filler metal, wasn't actually welding things together yet either. I'm excited to start using it more though.



I also need to pick up some filler metal and new tungsten.

[DrewP]

Bump.

jdwertz P/M'd me this question, I'm sure he wouldn't mind me sharing it. This is a few years after my above posts on my Everlast Powertig 250, we've had a few machines here at work I've gotten more time to use and have some more comments.

Hey Drew,

I was hoping you could comment on your Everlast 250 and its longevity. I would like to do my own TIG welding and am looking for an entry-mid level machine. The general consensus seems to be go used and get something blue...

I would like to be able to weld steel/aluminum so AC/DC is a must.I don't imagine I would ever be welding anything thicker than an inch. I am bit overwhelmed with all of the options. I love buying american when I can but I really need to stick to my budget.

Some options:

Miller Diversion 180
Miller Synchrowave
Everlast 250ex
Everlast Powertig 185 micro
Everlast 200dx
Thermalarc 185

I know this is a long pm, so thanks in advance.

My response:

We got a new Everlast Powertig 250EX (the one with the newer control panel) at work about 8-9 months ago, and unfortunately the quality has gone waaaay down from when I got mine (mine is the one with all the analog knobs). The torch and regulator they ship with are crap, and the pedal is not nearly as nice as mine.

That being said it welds just as good as my older Everlast, or our Miller Syncrowave and Miller Dynasty.

The Syncrowave is a monster, will gnaw away at max rated current at some crazy high duty cycle all day long. Think of it as a locomotive. Very non-portable, but very reliable, high quality, and almost any welding shop will be able to repair it. We use our Syncrowave 250 as a power supply for high current testing electrical cables sometimes, just short the torch lead to the ground clamp and pump current through the parts. Thing hasn't needed a single bit of maintenance in the 3.5 years I've been here. They hold value too, if you can score a deal on a used one that comes with a water cooler.

The Diversion 180 would drive me nuts because of the lack of controls. It will weld great, but you lose all the functionality of the more expensive machines like being able to adjust pre- and post-flow, high frequency pulsation, up- and down-slope, etc. If that is not important to you right now then it will be a solid investment. However it only puts out 150 amps on 230v power, but being able to plug it into a regular 110v outlet is a huge convenience.

The PowerTig 180 looks like it does more than the Diversion for half the price. Will do 185 amps, but is 230v only.

The 200DX has lots of nice features, but I'd spring the $100 for the 200DV - exact same machine but will run on dual voltage, so you can plug it into a regular 110v outlet.

I don't have personal experience with the Thermalarc, but Jodi from Welding Tips & Tricks likes them from what I remember.

[jdwertz]

I ended up getting the Miller Syncrowave 210. I was very close to buying the Everlast, but what sold me was Miller customer service and the ability to get it repaired at any Miller store. Everlast asks you to ship your unit to them for repairs, which is a pain.

I am brand new to GTAW and still need a lot of practice....comments and critique are more than welcome.

[squaab99t]

I ended up getting the Miller Syncrowave 210. I was very close to buying the Everlast, but what sold me was Miller customer service and the ability to get it repaired at any Miller store. Everlast asks you to ship your unit to them for repairs, which is a pain.



I am brand new to GTAW and still need a lot of practice....comments and critique are more than welcome.

I understand you will be bolting this joint, but from a welding perspective I would have beveled or chaffered the edges of the two plates. With material that thick (3/8") you can not get enough penetration for a proper weld joint with the way you have gone about it. 1/4" bevel at 45* on both parts will allow you to get the electrode in the crotch and feed the rod. You will have to do multi passes evenly on each leg.
I did this repair for a friend of the family. He uses it as a boom maker on the 4th of July and such. The original end cap blew off one year. This one will not on my watch.

Your's is also a challenging joint with the tall flange to get you hand and torch in a comfortable position. Stacking some scrap metal in front of it will give you a good perch to rest/guide your pinkie and wrist.

Don't be afraid to put some heat into those flanges. 150 amps setting is where I would start. The bolt hole areas you might back off if you do not want to redrill them.

[jdwertz]

Great tips as always Dennis. This was a practice piece to mount my turbo so I can mock up my oil lines. I am going to use some higher quality stainless for the final iteration. I found this spacer easier to weld cleanly than the oil return line I did today. Mostly because I was able to rest my hand in a maneuverable position. With the oil return line I struggled to get a nice looking bead going. Welding a circular piece with a tight radius is tough. I need to get a stool and piece of sheet metal to throw on top of my work bench to make things a little easier,

[squaab99t]

Great tips as always Dennis. This was a practice piece to mount my turbo so I can mock up my oil lines. I am going to use some higher quality stainless for the final iteration. I found this spacer easier to weld cleanly than the oil return line I did today. Mostly because I was able to rest my hand in a maneuverable position. With the oil return line I struggled to get a nice looking bead going. Welding a circular piece with a tight radius is tough. I need to get a stool and piece of sheet metal to throw on top of my work bench to make things a little easier,

Practice is always a good thing. If you have time, do it up right even in a mockup. It will be an investment in the final products.
In this case I added these bars to locate the center of the port. Some simple tacks would have done the trick, but I took the opportunity to bevel and run proper beads. The bevel helped get the weld down in there as I was planning on grinding the plates flat. If it was on the surface the weld would be ground away too.

Doing the oil lines are challenging. I suggest doing them in short segments (6) until you complete the whole assembly. Work back and forth like you would tighten a wheel or head.

Leave the torch in place during the post flow. (15) seconds so the metal does not get funky when it is close to melting temp.
Do you have pulse on your machine? If you do try it out. I use 20 Hz on steel and it lays down nice.

[jdwertz]

It does have pulse, I haven't played with it too much yet but I will give it a shot.

I think getting my butt in a seat and working to achieve a more comfortable hand position on each piece will do wonders.