1st SAAB rally car in Greece. ..........I hope

[fulviacorsa]

Guy's. That's a fantastic forum.
I just finish my Lancia Gr.4 rally car http://www.carestoration.gr/fulviaGr4.html
and I was looking in the net for my next rally car project. I found this forum. I read all the posts so far and I decide to buy a Saab 99 MY75 with a turbo engine.
I hope to help me to finish this project.
The car has a broken fuel pump axle and probably needs a turbo rebuild. I've the knowledge to repair everything but I need some help for the suspension setup. I was looking for Homologation papers but I didn't fount here in Greece in the local FIA rep nor in the FIA, so any add is welcome.
You can see the car and the job so far, here:
http://fulviacorsa.myphotoalbum.com/vie ... me=album12

BTW. any source to buy this long axle that goes in 90* angle with the water pump axle ?

[Crazyswede]

Ok I confused for a moment but now I see what you are referring to. The "Water pump axle" we call a "Lay-shaft" or sometimes an idler shaft. This shaft runs off of the engine timing chain and drives your water pump and the distributor for the ignition. I do not know of any place where you can buy a new shaft but there must be someone on the list that has a good one from a parts engine.



yep thats the lay shaft.

If the Water pump is bad you can track down a good stock replacement or you might consider an electric water pump. If you are building a car for historic rules I suspect the electric pump will not be legal.

is your fuel pump bad? If so that should be located in the trunk and there are plenty of sources for replacing the Bosch fuel pump.

[Geoff]

That's an interesting car you have. 1975 body shell but it looks like someone put all the parts from an 1980 turbo into it. Originally red, painted black, 1980ish interior, 1980+ bumpers (probably required welding to make mounts fit), 1977+ headlights and tail lights (required cutting sheet metal to fit), 1980 steering wheel, and more...

The idler shaft is sometimes also called the "Auxiliary shaft" or the "jack shaft". You'll need to replace all the components from a used engine (or find a full set of new parts). When the parts wear, if you replace only one, the gears may not match and will wear out. Also, there are some new factory shafts for the water pump that were produced towards the end of production for replacement parts where the gear angle is not right and will wear out the auxiliary shaft. Don't trust any aftermarket parts! Finding a used set is best and should last a long time. There are two different types of auxiliary shafts too, one with 8 cogs (gear teeth) for the water pump and one with 12 cogs. The 8 cog shaft sets are the earlier style and are stronger so try to find one of those sets if you can.

[fulviacorsa]

Thats very useful information. In Greece this car never used a lot, so used parts are most like a luxury. Eventualy I found someone with special machinery ho build a new saft from zero. I hope to be strong enought for this engine. Apart from the different parts on the car, do you have the official FIA homologation papers in order to check what is legal for race use. I ask from the local FIA repr. but as I said this model wasn't very common here, so difficult to find. Anyway thanks for your help.

[Geoff]

Did you get a complete set of shafts and gears built to replace the damaged shaft (complete set = auxiliary shaft, waterpump shaft, distributor gear) or did they only build a replacement auxiliary shaft? I would worry about the new shaft not matching the old shafts if you didn't replace everything. This could result in another failure.

I have one or two homologation papers for the 99, but nothing good. We don't need to prove any homologation in the United States. I think Luke might have them though. I think he is traveling so he won't answer right away but you might try to send him a PM. The SAAB Car Museum in Sweden is a good place to ask too. http://saabmuseum.com/ Peter Backstrom is the Manager of the museum and is nice and helpful but I don't know how to contact him directly.

[fulviacorsa]

I only did a new shaft using the pattern of the old one. I hope to be same. If not I'll buid a water pump shaft to match the long one. We'll see. If there isn't a problem I'll post here the progress of the project in order to get as more information as possible from some of you guys. It's obviews that you are guru's, so I don't think that I'll stack somewhere.

[fulviacorsa]

After the assembling of the engine and the test run I can say that everything is ok with the shafts. I'll try to push the engine as more as I can to see how it react before the installation on the car.

[fulviacorsa]

Everything is ok with the water pump (so far) The shell is now in the roll cage builder. I need some infor for the gearbox. I saw almost all the posts for the close ratio gearboxes but I'm comfused. I saw also in the homologation papers that the final drive SAAB use is 3,9 or 5,1. Obviusly for rally use I need the 5,1 but how can identify it ?? The car has a 5speed gearbox, probably from 900 turbo that came with the engine. If I found a 4speed gearbox can I attached with the 8V turbo engine I have ??

Could you indicate were or explane to me this trick with the chain in the primary (gearbox). Since I'm not a native speaker I prefer some drawings or pictures to get an idea.

After my recearch in rally history here in Greece I found no SAAB competing in the past, so the infos from local sources are extremely few.

Thanks in advnce guys

[fulviacorsa]

BTW if someone needs a copy from the FIA Homologation papers send me a PM.

[fulviacorsa]

Did you get a complete set of shafts and gears built to replace the damaged shaft (complete set = auxiliary shaft, waterpump shaft, distributor gear) or did they only build a replacement auxiliary shaft? I would worry about the new shaft not matching the old shafts if you didn't replace everything. This could result in another failure.

You are right I did it. I'm going back to the electric pump like it was when I took the car for now.
My mechanic thought, told me that he could modify a Fiat external water pump to the engine drived by a belt. We 'll see.
In the meanwhile I'm looking for another engine, but here in Greece its to hard to find one.
BTW, Is anyone knows if the 16v from a 900 turbo is homologated for rally ??
I saw the Stigs 99 with 16v head but I think it was an experimental engine just for the works car.
Fortunately, I spent no money for the olld engine except the water pump.
I need also a sourse for a budget rims (minilites ?) as the times are difficult.
If my question for the 900 engine is possitive I'll by a 900 turbo I found. I think I can also use the rear axle (wider ??) and the wheel hubs as well.
Thanks in advance
I'll try to post some pictures next time from the progress .

[Geoff]

I think the 16v turbo from the 900 was homologated, that's the engine which is in this factory rally car that James has:


Maybe James will show up and comment...

Does homolgation allow you to use an engine from another car? It is a slightly different engine than the 99 engine.

The 99 engine with a 16v is a different head/engine than the 900 unit. The story is that maybe less than 20 of the 16v B engine heads that were made were useable.

Cheap wheels... since there aren't may SAABs in Greece (?) maybe look for another car that has a 4 x 114.3mm bolt pattern. We get different cars in the US than you get so its hard to say which ones to look for.

[fulviacorsa]

Guys
That's the fastest forum. Is like a chat forum Thanks Geoff
I knew about the 16v B engines. I saw a video in Youtube. The think is : If the homologation (still need to find one from the 900 turbo) says ........16v head without any code maybe I can use the one from 900 turbo. If says specific details and the B engine head is rare like you said propably I'm going to play with the old 99 turbo engine.

[Crazyswede]

Guys
That's the fastest forum. Is like a chat forum Thanks Geoff
I knew about the 16v B engines. I saw a video in Youtube. The think is : If the homologation (still need to find one from the 900 turbo) says ........16v head without any code maybe I can use the one from 900 turbo. If says specific details and the B engine head is rare like you said propably I'm going to play with the old 99 turbo engine.

One of the prominent forum members on here has a 16v B head and is in the process of building it into an engine. Geoff also took some photos of a car at one of the recent Saab conventions that had a B engine with a later H motor 16v head...so there is that possibility too.

[fulviacorsa]

Geoff also took some photos of a car at one of the recent Saab conventions that had a B engine with a later H motor 16v head...so there is that possibility too.

Hmmmm.....Let see what we have here

[Crazyswede]

here is the link to that thread and the photos of the H head on the B motor:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1445