99 Street

[airsweden]

Where in NE? There's one at Chris Rizzon's shop in Dorset, VT.

[Jordan]

Are there two different types of pullers based on the type of impeller (nut vs. bolt)?

[jfoo13]

I took off the thermostat and turned it over. Nothing but small vibrations in the coolant.
Then I proceded to take everything apart crossing my fingers that no splines were damaged on the jack shaft. I open up the water pump cover and attempt to take off the left hand nut. It doesn't want to give at all. I then attempt to tighten it just to see if I could get anything to move and the entire thing comes out - impeller, shaft, bearings and all. To my surprise, all the teeth look fine on everything and the bearing feels great to me.

Granted I've never done this job before and after reading in the manual it says I don't need the "special tool" on the early type water pump, but does this sound right? I assume its not supposed to come out that easy. I can't separate the impeller even with some serious force.

I've covered Geoff's water pump replacement thread but it looks like its for the '76+ models.

Any advice on this? I apologize for sounding naive if I do - I'm new to this stuff. Now all I can think of is some type of blockage in the head that was causing it to overheat. Or my temperature sender was off. Or I had air in the system. Advice???

[Crazyswede]

if you crank the engine over does the water pump turn when it is installed in the engine? leave the cover off and watch to make sure the pump is turning....or isn't.

[99Super]

It could be you have a cracked head, a blown head gasket or the wrong thermostat.
When I had my first 99, it had perpetual heating/cooling problems.
Having only had old American V8's, I had no clue about the 2-stage T-stat thing.
Eventually, I also found a crack in the head but it's hard to say which came first...

john

[jfoo13]

Well I don't see any signs of a cracked head - nothing is leaking and I just had the entire head cleaned and vacuum tested as well as shaved. All checks out. I put the whole thing back together and now the fan won't even come on when I override the ground wire. I'm giving it one more day of trouble shooting next weekend and then I'm driving it to the shop. If I can get the fan working and it still doesn't cool the engine then I'm out of ideas. Thanks for the help thus far.

[Jordan]

Try to focus on one thing at time so you can narrow down the problem. If you put the pump back in and rotate the engine, does it spin? Next check the thermostat, just replace it if you haven;t already as they are pretty cheap. I thought only turbos had two-stage T-stats, but I'm not sure. As for the fan, check your relay. I forget if it is a standard bosch relay but there should be 12v on two terminals (30 and 86 if standard relay), make sure the other side of the radiator temp switch has a good ground. Also try pulling the terminal (going to the relay) and touch to a ground to see if it comes on, then the temp switch is bad or not getting to temperature. You just have to be methodical about it and check one thing at a time.

[jfoo13]

Thanks Jordan. Sweet ride btw, you're almost there!!!
Your right about the methodology. I've already tried a new thermostat, new temp sensor (vdo one so I can read actual numbers, but I hooked it up to the dash and seems to be the same). I've also tried grounding the fan temp sender and that was working for a little while to get the fan to come on but now its not. My plan for now is to figure out what is not making the fan turn on (already checked the ground under the rad.) and see if that will cool the engine while sitting.

As for the water pump it seemed to check out. I manually spun the fly wheel with it resting in place and the pump spins and the bear seemed good. I just screwed it back in place nice and tight and it seems to hold. I didn't use a press cause I couldn't even separate the impeller from the shaft. Kind of ghetto to just turn it back in and snug it down but I don't think the old ones require pressing. And its not leaking so?

I think I'm going to drain the system one more time, fill it up with water, run it for ten, then drain it, refill it with coolant. Is junk susceptible to building up? I know the head is getting oil cause its leaking out of the valve cover again. And the head was JUST cleaned!?!? The real problem is that its 2 hours away in maine and I can only work on it during the wee hours of the morning before my gf wakes up.... :)

[Jordan]

In my experience, most stuff doesn't break that often. So unless it's cheap to replace and I know I won't break anything fixing it, I just stick with what is in there unless I'm 100% positive it is not functioning correctly. I guess what I'm saying is don't assume the worst, because it is usually something dumb that I did (occams razor?), like the ground I knocked off or fuse that got blown.

The cooling system is fairly basic and there aren't that many components. If you've verified the pump working, next I'd check the flow manually and make sure everything is plumbed right (maybe remove the t-stat all together). If you're going to drain the coolant anyway might as well check the flow through the radiator. If you get it all back together and bled , get it to running temp, touch all the hoses and see if anything feels a little cool to check for circulation.

You may also want to run a manual override switch for the fan in conjunction with the stock temp switch. Just add a on/off switch to the existing ground wire off the relay so you can complete the ground circuit yourself.

[Geoff]

The reason the pump came out when you turned it clockwise is because the pump and shaft gears acted like screws and the pump unscrewed off the shaft which pushed it out of the block. The same with when you screwed it in. The only thing holding the "cage type" pumps into the block are the O-rings. Hopefully those are still soft and you cleaned them a little before you put it back in, but like you said... it doesn't leak so that's good.

The pump won't gush coolant out of the thermostat housing until the car is started. Just cranking it won't really generate enough pressure to make it gush. You can usually watch the fluid level rise and fall in the thermostat housing when cranking. If the gears are good and the impeller is on the shaft, the pump is installed, the car runs (meaning the aux. shaft is turning the distributor), and the pump isn't gushing water then the pump is working.

I'm guessing you might have some issues with air in the system (along with cooling fan problems). Did you bleed the system using the bleeder valve on top of the heater control valve? You should open it when filling and then let it sit open for a while after filling. I usually then start the car and get it warm and then open and bleeder and see if any air comes out, then shut it down and open the bleeder again. If that is OK then I let it run enough to get it up to temp so the thermostat opens and see if the temps stabilize or keep climbing.

[jfoo13]

Any idea where I can get one of these? Like a new one? :)
Its the electrical injection plug thingy (tech term). The electrical connections are so tiny.

[Jordan]

Looks like a molex connector? Hard to tell , it is a little blurry. Molex has round male/female terminals, I think they even have them at radio shack. If you can replace the whole connector, I'd replace it with a nice weather pack or similar

[Geoff]

I'm being lazy and not going out to look at my car to confirm but that goes to the radiator fan or the blower motor? As I remember it's just two female spade connectors, one turned 90deg to the other. If the connector is melted or the plugs messed up you can just cut it off, crimp on new spade connectors and plug it back onto whatever it goes to without the convenience of having the nice housing.

[jfoo13]

I found some really small connectors at Radio shack and they ended up fitting. I couldn't get them to fit in the connector but they have small rubber shields on them anyways so it all works.

I started the car once more, waited for normal temps to rise - only about 6/7 minutes of sitting, 190+ degrees - and then hot wired the fan but the temps keep climbing. Then I felt the radiator and its not even warm until more than half way up.

I think its clogged. I've had it pressure tested and it was fine but that still won't tell me flow. Time for a new radiator. Anyone had experience with getting theirs recored? I was thinking about just coughing up the dough for a new one all together but its tough to find.

What are the differences between radiators in 99s? Will all years fit?

[Jordan]

I got a nice new one off ebay for $50 a year or two ago, but I had to call them since they weren't listed anymore. I don't know if I remember the name of the company, I think Geoff got one as well, maybe he remembers.

I think the temp sensor position might have changed , which in turn changed the left side upright, but you can just add a hole there to accommodate it.