'73 Notchback Road Racer

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Luke
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby Luke » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:24 pm

Awesome work Drew, can't give you enough credit. Is the halo hoop now allowed again by most sanctioning bodies? I know it was not allowed (for no good reason as long as there are strong gussets) for some time in rally. My first cage was a halo design and it wasnt the best fitting cage but I know it was super strong because of the large gussets and also did a great job of protecting the upper windsheild line because it sorta curved out into that area. The only shortfall is you cant quite get the a-pillar bars as close as with lateral side hoops.

Heres a picture from our first season - so many good memories sitting inside that cage
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DrewP
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby DrewP » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:13 pm

Thanks for the compliments, you have no idea how appreciative I am - the guys at work tell me they like it, and it looks nice, but unless you actually know what you're looking at pretty much anyone says that if they see a jumble of tubing inside a car!

The halo is specifically allowed in some of the entry-sort of club road racing, like Chump, LeMons, the BMW CCA rule book, I think in the SCCA production modified categories, etc. Now that you point it out it is not included in the current FIA-253 specs, if I tag along to any of the Rally California events I will ask the scrutineers and see what they say.

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I did the halo partly because it was easy to build the way I tilted the main hoop out so I didn't have to chop into the sills, and because I built the 4 main points without a helper, my brother didn't get into town till the halo, front stays, main hoop and main X were already built, and it was not too difficult for me to do myself and position in the car while I was fitting everything, so we'll see. I definitely agree about the A-pillar area, it looks like it'd be a lot easier to get it tight against the doorjams with half roll bars along the sides. It does fit pretty nicely against the windscreen perimeter though, I think the worst thing I will have to worry about with this car (other than getting T-boned by a 95 lb. Korean woman in a Lexus RX330 here in LA) is tumbling it off in a runoff area at a road course where there's some open space, plowing into something sideways with the front quarter with the halo might try to pop the tube off the bottom of the halo and that could cause problems.

And Geoff, I think I will take your suggestion and box the bottoms of the feet forward to the firewall, especially with the way I have the side impact members protruding so far out, a hard hit there will try to splay the front and main hoop feet apart pretty hard, so I think that's a good idea.

The thought has already occurred to me to get the car up to Kirsten's parents place outside Rochester in the winter sometime, she gave the initial impression she thought a cross-country sort of trip in one of my race cars sounded fun - but I bet after the first hour or two of the incessant droning she will change her mind.... 8)

If anyone decides to buy that little red notchback '86 in Santa Monica I would totally throw a cage in it and send it on it's way up to you folks in the land of perpetual oxidation! I had some spots on the shell where I chopped out brackets and sanded them smooth over a month ago that still don't even have spots of surface rust on the bare metal, I'd already be able to use those spots as pencil holders if I lived up there in Paul Revere land with you guys!

Best,
Drew
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby DrewP » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:26 pm

Has been hectic at the shop, plus I kept putting off really diving into the sheet metal work for the firewall patch panel, but my brother was here this week (we changed the clutch in his 9000 while we were at it) and made some good progress, so since the last update we got through:

-Engine mounts made, engine re-positioned slightly
-Primed the cage
-Took apart & partially rebuilt early style non-assist steering rack - still need a pair of boots
-Chopped firewall and made the patch panel
-Scavenged LH2.2 system from a donor '87 we have at the shop
-Claimed power steering system in donor car, will pull rack when engine comes out for another of the guy's cars.


Just primed the cage with some Rustoleum Pro bare metal primer - if you don't have one definitely get one of the little 'gun' grip attachments that clips to the top of a spray paint can. It only took me about a can and a half the 18oz. cans to prime the whole cage with between 1-2 coats this way, and it was much easier than trying to do it with the button on the can, plus your hand doesn't get all sore.

ALSO, I had never tried the 'green' 3M painter's tape, it's meant for surfaces that are 'hard-to-stick-to' and it really does work - that blue tape crap is total junk. The green tape had no trouble sticking to the edges of the body of the car where there were oily handprints and dust sitting on it, I didn't even wipe most of the areas off, the stuff is awesome.

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Using a pair of hockey pucks (LA Kings and San Jose Sharks) for the driver's side and front mounts.

I built a little riser with a bolt welded in for the front cover. It's made so that I can use the pin mount C900 front cover meant for the hydraulic mount, which has the bolt in a little different place than the 99 primary cover, but I only have one of the 99 covers, and have dozens of C900 covers so it'll make prepping extra engines easier. The driver's side mount I just made a little bracket like the original early 99 bracket, but it extends lower to meet the puck and levels the engine. Passenger side uses the factory mid-year C900 bracket and barrel rubber mount, and just drilled the pair of holes into the perch atop the tunnel, which will also let me use a C900 power steering pump without any extra work, the mount is already all there.


Get in there!!

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Crank snout didn't even fit on the right side of the firewall where I wanted to put the engine, so it got it's own little hatch:

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Passenger side mount - $4.99, since it's the off-season and all.

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Front mount bracket:

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Passenger side, stock brackets for adding power steering easily later - I have a feeling the early non-assisted rack will be way to hard with wide sticky tyres and a bunch of caster:

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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby DrewP » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:35 pm

Starting position of the dummy engine w/ 16V head:

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Water pump didn't even fit, driver's side w/ no alternator or water pump just yet:

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I tacked the front mount all together and then ended up seeing I wanted the engine much farther back, you can see how much further back I moved it - the mounting plate originally fit nicely into the little flat pocket where the stock mount sat:

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Driver's side made:

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Next it needs a big hole:

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Paper mockup for panel size and test fitting:

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Flanged patch panel, it's 0.065" cold rolled mild:

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Bottom corner angled back where it meets the floor right above the steering rack:

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Lots of space now! T5 trigger wheel will have no problem fitting back there, and there's even be plenty of room to change belts even with trigger wheel hung off where the A/C pulley would be:

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I'm gonna sand it all down and get the panel tacked in tomorrow, then chop more out of the firewall and start adding the forward bracing to joint the front legs of the cage together, will try to get more photos up on a more regular basis, things should start coming together much faster now.

Best,
Drew
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby Crazyswede » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:49 pm

Hockey pucks work and they are cheap...however they do like to crack over time. I have since found a good replacement that is still cheap and will last a looooong time. Land rover disco/range rover motor mounts...a little more expensive then the hockey puck ($12 each).

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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby DrewP » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:52 pm

Are those a hard rubber too? Are they hollow?

I like it.
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby Crazyswede » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:54 pm

Impressive build by the way...Lots of firewall clearance. Will your pedal assembly be a problem now?
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby DrewP » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:24 pm

Crazyswede wrote:Impressive build by the way...Lots of firewall clearance. Will your pedal assembly be a problem now?




Thank you, I think it's coming together pretty nicely, nice to not have to keep center console/dash/all-that-other stuff in mind when customizing it.


On the pedals: Yup, not a chance the stock pedals will fit in there now! Or the brake booster for that matter, I am going to use the C900 alternator. Or put a 115 amp 9000 alternator in there and a zillion Mad Max lights.

I will end up making pedals and am going to do a pair of racing masters, but they will be inside the cabin. I'd love to use a pair of pivot mount Tilton 77's, but they're a little too pricey (~$350/ea) will probably just go with 75's and make a box up above somewhere, or just buy an overhead mount pedal cluster.

I was also looking at maybe trying to adapt the pedal cluster from a 9000, it has a really nice vertical mount for the clutch master attached to it already that puts it inside the cabin as well, keep it in the family that way, but without reinforcing the firewall it might be a little flimsy to get good brake pedal feel so I will probably shy away from that and just buy some sexy Tilton shit. Getting the car on the road is probably a little more important than doing everything as cheap as I can at this point, so if I can make something off the shelf fit nicely I will probably do that.

With all the weight that came out of the middle and back of the car it will really need a brake bias to get it to not try to swap ends when you mash the 'Oh SHIT!' pedal.

77's:

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Tilton top mount pedal cluster, $205 from Summit without cylinders, and would be really easy to mount to the dash bar:

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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby Crazyswede » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:42 pm

The land rover motor mounts have a 12mm stud on each end that attaches to a steel round plate. There is a 3rd steel round plate in the middle and stiff rubber sandwiched in-between everything. They are a little taller then one hockey puck but shorter than two...and look to be pretty close to the original height of the stock 99 mounts. The mount in the photo is not the correct one for the Series truck I put them on but they worked as the stock series mounts were back ordered. The Series Land Rover mounts are similar construction but have a 10mm shaft on each end and the rubber is smaller diameter and not as tall.
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby DrewP » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:53 pm

When you meant the hockey pucks crack apart, you mean the rubber splits apart? I was actually worried the rubber would be so stiff that I would have issues cracking the welds on the mounting brackets themselves from all the vibration, I don't think I have a problem changing the mounts once a year if it's just the rubber that comes apart.

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Drew
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby Crazyswede » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:47 pm

DrewP wrote:When you meant the hockey pucks crack apart, you mean the rubber splits apart? I was actually worried the rubber would be so stiff that I would have issues cracking the welds on the mounting brackets themselves from all the vibration, I don't think I have a problem changing the mounts once a year if it's just the rubber that comes apart.

Best,
Drew


The rubber in the hockey puck will last a long time. I had them in my 99 and I found that they tended to crack around the bolt hole over time. I wouldn't worry about them falling out of the car. I mostly suggested the Land Rover mounts because I think they would still be quite stiff but with less vibration as seen with the hockey pucks.
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby DrewP » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:30 am

Less vibration will definitely help the life of things, I will definitely look into those to soften things up, thanks for the tip.

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Drew
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby SwedeSport » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:00 am

Im sure that softer mounts will translate into less driver fatigue as well. Its like the way you feel after running a chainsaw for a while. Hands and arms are all rubbery. The same is true for an obnoxiously loud exhaust. You dont want to get sick of being in the car. There is a balance between the gain from stiffening everything, and the gains youll achieve by increasing your comfort level in the cockpit. Youll be much faster, and more consistent if your car doesnt wear you out before the end of an event. I tore out a stock motor mount on my 900 once, and it was hitting the frame of the car, and the cv joint was rubbing. I jacked it up on the side of the road and stuffed a block of lumber between the cross member and trans. I drove it a few miles home and it was incredible how much vibration came thru the chassis. Thats what I imaging it would feel like with mounts that are too hard.
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Luke
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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby Luke » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:06 am

Looking great, I really like the extended drivers side mount, really nice execution.

On the front, will the radiator have clearance issues though? I use a 3" thick core so mine would definatly not clear, but maybe the std one will?

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Re: '73 Notchback Road Racer

Postby Geoff » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:06 pm

Nice progress!
It looks far back in the pictures. Do the inner drivers line up with the drive shaft holes in the body?
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