Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
- squaab99t
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Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
About 1/2 quart in the I/C.
First step is removal of the old T3/T4 hybrid. This was an upgrade from the OEM boosted about stock, but moved more air. Unfortunately only lasted about 40k miles.
After removing the downpipe I discovered a crack on the external wastegate pipe welded to the turbo flange.
What we induced is that the wastegate was over constrained and there was no movement to allow thermo changes and mis-alignment in the original design
Welding up the crack was easy, but preventing from happening again?
Saab 99t to the rescue. The original wastegate bellow would work out fantactic. The problem was welding a paper thin bellow (.024) to the thicker (.063) downpipe.
This was the most challenging weld I have ever done. The position and material thickness made it very tough.
The money was having a slight gap between the bellow's coil and the wastegate pipe. This promoted the thicker tube to melt quicker and decrease the chance of blowing thru the bellow.
Last edited by squaab99t on Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
- squaab99t
- Posts: 1262
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
Some challenges that come with installing a more modern turbo.
1) T25 flange vs T3
2) H2O coolant lines
3) Oil in restricted flow for the ball bearing vs the journal bearing
4) Oil return to the block.
5) Air inlet, although self inflicted with a 4" diameter inlet size.
1) GT 25, 28, 30, and 35s normally come with a T25 sized flange and internal wastegate. Previous pictures showed how I addressed the wastegate. What you need to do is order the turbine with a T3 flange and the Ford 5 bolt exhaust flange. I went thru ATP turbo and was able to get the combo I needed.
2) The OEM coolant lines will not fit the Center housing. I bought banjos with -6 AN male fittings.
The hard lines will have -6 AN male bungs brazed on, and finally hose to bridge the gap. I'm going to try Aeroquip Starlite hose in lieu of the standard stainless over braid. The Starlite uses a Nomex over braid which is lighter and has a tighter bend radius.
3) Oil restricter, ATP had a great solution for this one. Very much plug and play.
-4 AN male. Same plan as with the H2O, with a brazed bung on the hardline.
4) The stock turbo oil return line used the turbo itself to keep it inserted into the block. The bolt spacing on the center section is not the same on the new turbo as the old, so that would not work.
Another ATP product is a -10 AN flanged fitting.
This gets oil out of the turbo. How do we get it returned to the block?
Stock part with a -10 AN bung welded on.
In the block. I still have to build a saddle or arch that will pickup two fasteners that bolt the transmission on. Couple bead welds to the that part and the tube and it will be good to go.
5) 4" dia inlet. The ducting will run into the clutch cover even with a pretty sharp S bend.
Sheet metal fab time. I took a 3" tube and made it a transition with an offset.
Welded.
Power coat for Bling
Fitted. Note the clutch cover. This is about a 3/8 inch gap.
That is it for now. Hoses on order. I ordered them pre-made with mostly crimped ends versus using the reusable fittings.
I also have to mock up the saddle part for the oil return line.
1) T25 flange vs T3
2) H2O coolant lines
3) Oil in restricted flow for the ball bearing vs the journal bearing
4) Oil return to the block.
5) Air inlet, although self inflicted with a 4" diameter inlet size.
1) GT 25, 28, 30, and 35s normally come with a T25 sized flange and internal wastegate. Previous pictures showed how I addressed the wastegate. What you need to do is order the turbine with a T3 flange and the Ford 5 bolt exhaust flange. I went thru ATP turbo and was able to get the combo I needed.
2) The OEM coolant lines will not fit the Center housing. I bought banjos with -6 AN male fittings.
The hard lines will have -6 AN male bungs brazed on, and finally hose to bridge the gap. I'm going to try Aeroquip Starlite hose in lieu of the standard stainless over braid. The Starlite uses a Nomex over braid which is lighter and has a tighter bend radius.
3) Oil restricter, ATP had a great solution for this one. Very much plug and play.
-4 AN male. Same plan as with the H2O, with a brazed bung on the hardline.
4) The stock turbo oil return line used the turbo itself to keep it inserted into the block. The bolt spacing on the center section is not the same on the new turbo as the old, so that would not work.
Another ATP product is a -10 AN flanged fitting.
This gets oil out of the turbo. How do we get it returned to the block?
Stock part with a -10 AN bung welded on.
In the block. I still have to build a saddle or arch that will pickup two fasteners that bolt the transmission on. Couple bead welds to the that part and the tube and it will be good to go.
5) 4" dia inlet. The ducting will run into the clutch cover even with a pretty sharp S bend.
Sheet metal fab time. I took a 3" tube and made it a transition with an offset.
Welded.
Power coat for Bling
Fitted. Note the clutch cover. This is about a 3/8 inch gap.
That is it for now. Hoses on order. I ordered them pre-made with mostly crimped ends versus using the reusable fittings.
I also have to mock up the saddle part for the oil return line.
- matt
- Turbo Troll Crew Chief
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
anticipated output?
"we changed a flat in 4 minutes, twice"
1994 9000 Aero (intake, stg 4 ecu, 3" TBE, clutch + broken trans mod) *sold*
2001 Subaru Outback Wagon *sold*
2006 Subaru WRX Wagon I'm back on boost!
1994 9000 Aero (intake, stg 4 ecu, 3" TBE, clutch + broken trans mod) *sold*
2001 Subaru Outback Wagon *sold*
2006 Subaru WRX Wagon I'm back on boost!
- squaab99t
- Posts: 1262
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- Location: Shoreline Wa
Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
matt wrote:anticipated output?
With the old turbo I have 235 whp. 232 ft-lbs. My goal: I'd like to have 300 whp at 18psi. What I really want is a flatter torque curve. 15psi of boost at 3000 rpm is what I'm shooting for. I have a standalone engine management, so full control of fuel and ignition. I'll have to go back to the dyno for tuning the maps to take full advantage of the new turbo.
End of the day. Dyno numbers are great for internet racing, but I want a nice torque curve and usable power. Anything above 300 whp on a front wheel drive car is a waste. IMO....
Garrett rates the GT3071R at 350-460 bhp.
- matt
- Turbo Troll Crew Chief
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
squaab99t wrote:Dyno numbers are great for internet racing, but I want a nice torque curve and usable power.
Everyone on any car board anywhere should have this in their brain at all times.
"we changed a flat in 4 minutes, twice"
1994 9000 Aero (intake, stg 4 ecu, 3" TBE, clutch + broken trans mod) *sold*
2001 Subaru Outback Wagon *sold*
2006 Subaru WRX Wagon I'm back on boost!
1994 9000 Aero (intake, stg 4 ecu, 3" TBE, clutch + broken trans mod) *sold*
2001 Subaru Outback Wagon *sold*
2006 Subaru WRX Wagon I'm back on boost!
- Jordan
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
I'm surprised you didn't just go with the GT28RS.
- Crazyswede
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- squaab99t
- Posts: 1262
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
Jordan wrote:I'm surprised you didn't just go with the GT28RS.
AKA GT2860RS, Disco Potato. Still has all the hook up issues. The GT2860 moved out of the compressor efficiency map area with the pounds of air and pressure ratios I was looking for. Garrett rates it up to 350 Bhp, so it is at the top end.
I agree the GT28RS would spool nice and quickly, but would run out of top end. It is all about compromises.
- Jordan
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
squaab99t wrote:Jordan wrote:I'm surprised you didn't just go with the GT28RS.
AKA GT2860RS, Disco Potato. Still has all the hook up issues. The GT2860 moved out of the compressor efficiency map area with the pounds of air and pressure ratios I was looking for. Garrett rates it up to 350 Bhp, so it is at the top end.
I agree the GT28RS would spool nice and quickly, but would run out of top end. It is all about compromises.
Having been driven around with a disco potato, it seemed to hold the top end just fine, but maybe I had my eyes closed at that point. I think Luke had his dynoed , still conservatively tuned, around 280whp. I'm sure it could have been stretched to the 300hp mark..but kudos to you for going with option B. I'm eager to see how it works out! What do you plan on doing for clutch options?
Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
Nice install! All the details and bits look great. I am running the GT28RS on the rally car and its perfect for that application, torque is nearly flat from 2800 to redline at 6600 and pulls like a freight train the whole way. Your car is going to haul some serious ass that's for sure.
- squaab99t
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
I did not know that what Luke was running. I like your comment about the torque coming on at 2800. I'm hoping for light lag.
Clutch, I was running a 7 1/4 inch dual disk Quarter Master rated to 600 ft- lbs. It suxed bad for daily driving. Switch to a 9" 9000 clutch and pressure plate. We'll see if it slips.
Clutch, I was running a 7 1/4 inch dual disk Quarter Master rated to 600 ft- lbs. It suxed bad for daily driving. Switch to a 9" 9000 clutch and pressure plate. We'll see if it slips.
- DrewP
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
I have the 9" (or 9.25" or whatever, the mid year Aero one for a '93 Aero) in my black 900, last time it was on the dyno it was putting down something like 280 lb-ft at the wheels (but only 235 hp), it's been in that car for about 6 years now with 190+whp the whole time and no issues.
Drives like stock and it' silent. I'm planning to use one for the turbo motor in the yellow car.
Drives like stock and it' silent. I'm planning to use one for the turbo motor in the yellow car.
"You can educate ignorance, but you can't fix stupid."
- squaab99t
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
Got my hoses the other day. The hoses were made with crimp style fittings and Starlite in lieu of the reusable style and stainless hose. These are the lightest and at about $5 per crimp labor well worth saving my knuckles and pricking the crap out of my thumbs. I also bought firesleeve, a Silicone coated fiberglass overbraid.
Oil return -10 with firesleeve
Oil in -4
Mocked up
Hard line interface. Counterbore the bung and TIG it on the hardline. Typical for the oil and water.
Oil return -10 with firesleeve
Oil in -4
Mocked up
Hard line interface. Counterbore the bung and TIG it on the hardline. Typical for the oil and water.
- squaab99t
- Posts: 1262
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
Got some work done between weekend events. Got the bungs fitted and TIG to the hard lines. Getting the oil banjo off the block is a bitch with the intake manifold and water pump hoses in place.
Mockup went well. The Starlite stuff is really nice to work with. It seems to flow nicer and does not fight you like the stainless overbraid.
Mockup went well. The Starlite stuff is really nice to work with. It seems to flow nicer and does not fight you like the stainless overbraid.
- DrewP
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Re: Garrett GT3071R install on a 900c
That looks a lot nicer than stainless hose too. Very clean and OEM.
"You can educate ignorance, but you can't fix stupid."
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