1986 SPG

[hutch]

Oh ok then I guess it's on correctly because I did spin it and it ended up right where it was when I took the old one off and I was able to push it on a bit. That's interesting about the key though, I was reading some guy online talk about how you need to make sure not to loose it when removing but then I ran my finger around it and I couldn't feel anything on the crankshaft so I was thoroughly confused.

I'm gonna try and get that finished up tomorrow, fingers crossed its the right pulley and she starts...

[squaab99t]

Oh ok then I guess it's on correctly because I did spin it and it ended up right where it was when I took the old one off and I was able to push it on a bit. That's interesting about the key though, I was reading some guy online talk about how you need to make sure not to loose it when removing but then I ran my finger around it and I couldn't feel anything on the crankshaft so I was thoroughly confused.

I'm gonna try and get that finished up tomorrow, fingers crossed its the right pulley and she starts...

Did you compare the two, or the one that lined up correctly on your spare turbo motor? No time for crossing fingers. You need to rule things out as problems if she does not start.

Just my opinion...

[Jordan]

Also check the clearance between the sensor and the wheel. Make sure that is in spec. But I agree with Dennis, it is easy enough to rule out the crank trigger as a problem.

[hutch]

Well F my life, the new pulley is on and it still isn't lined up correctly.

Did you compare the two, or the one that lined up correctly on your spare turbo motor? No time for crossing fingers. You need to rule things out as problems if she does not start.

Just my opinion...

I agree completely, as soon as I got the old one off I compared them side by side and to my eye they seemed like they didn't match up so I put the new one on to test fit the trigger wheel and now the new pulley is stuck on there so I briefly gave up to save some sanity and return at a later time. I should have compared the new pulley to the correct turbo one but the big nut was still on so I couldn't compare the holes with the woodruff key, big mistake apparently. I was either too rushed and stupid and made a mistake (likely) or the new pulley is indeed different but it's still not correct (mildly possible given its a cheap chinese part).

Also check the clearance between the sensor and the wheel. Make sure that is in spec. But I agree with Dennis, it is easy enough to rule out the crank trigger as a problem.

When I first put the wheel on I checked the gap, it seemed like it was like 1.5mm or so, about what I thought the called for distance was.

I'm gonna take another day in the middle of the week to take the pulley off again and compare again and then decide my course of action. I actually just finally graduated from college on Saturday so I should have some more free time because my priorities were a little un-Saab related this past weekend.

[hutch]

Well one step closer...

Bad news: I'm an idiot.

Good news: I'm an idiot who can spot and learn from my mistakes.

I was able to get a pry bar at sears so I was able to get the pulley back off again and I did confirm what I originally thought that it was indeed different than the EZK pulley. I also took the pulley off my spare turbo block and lined them up to confirm I do in fact have the correct one. Now the CPS works, I think, but I'm pretty sure the tach signal wire isn't working. The car will start and fire a few revolutions but the tach doesn't even jump so the car dies after a few seconds. But unlike last time I can definitely hear it run for a few seconds so I think I just need to get the T5suite connected and pull up the dashboard to see if there is a tach signal going into the ECU. But, I at least feel I'm making progress especially now that I don't have to mess around with the god awful crank pulley.

[Jordan]

The tach isn't required for the car to run... its actually an output generated by Trionic not an input...so something else must be a miss. Did you plug in the vac line to the MAP sensor?

If you have the CANUSB hookup... wire that up (it's only two wires to check stuff, just the CANL and CANH ), and check all your sensor values.

[hutch]

Interesting about the tach signal, when I first put megasquirt on my old SPG I had nearly the exact same symptoms when the tach signal wasnt connected properly, but of course that was a different EFI system all together. Oh well, there goes that

And yes I have the map sensor routed correctly, even swapped in a spare sensor with no real change. I have the vacuum hose routed to the rear side of the throttle body, closest to the head as I believe that is the correct way. Other than that all the sensors have been double checked, relays and fuses are in, not really too much else it could be I hope. Call me crazy but I've had enough bad luck with poorly charged batteries so I'm going to finish charging it tonight and check in the morning because it was pretty well discharged.

I'm also downloading all of the t5suite stuff onto another computer as the one I had been using was giving me trouble. I'm hoping to get it hooked up tomorrow evening, that should give pretty conclusive evidence as to what is going on, fingers crossed...

[SwedeSport]

Years ago I got into trying to simplify an 87 900S harness. I got carried away snipping out shit I wasn't going to need. long atory short, I spent hours diagnosing a crank but no start issue. Found I snipped a blue wire that linked the tach to the ECU. reconnected it and it fired right up.

[Jordan]

Years ago I got into trying to simplify an 87 900S harness. I got carried away snipping out shit I wasn't going to need. long atory short, I spent hours diagnosing a crank but no start issue. Found I snipped a blue wire that linked the tach to the ECU. reconnected it and it fired right up.

Speaking of dead three legged horses.... (inside joke)

Jason just likes to tell stories -- don't let him confuse you . The tach signal is generated by the CPS, which if working properly makes the fuel pump run. Also maybe check basic stuff like all other vacuum hoses/boot clamps and also fuel pressure (leaks).

[DrewP]

Jordan is saying:

In T5 the crank position sensor signal and the tach signal are two different things.

T5 = CPS >> ECU >> Tach

LH = CPS >> Ignition amplifier >> Tach + ECM (shared signal)

Make sure the fuel pump is staying running (or even easier, jumper it from the fuse box to run continuously and see if it starts, or shoot some starter fluid down one of the intake manifold vacuum ports and see if it fires.)

[hutch]

Years ago I got into trying to simplify an 87 900S harness. I got carried away snipping out shit I wasn't going to need. long atory short, I spent hours diagnosing a crank but no start issue. Found I snipped a blue wire that linked the tach to the ECU. reconnected it and it fired right up.

Thats sort of what I'm worried of, I cleaned up a bunch of LH stuff that I hope isn't causing some weird bridged connection or something. It shouldn't be causing any problems but who knows with my luck with this install.

The car will run and even somewhat idle for a few seconds if I keep a little bit on the throttle, then it dies out. It almost feels like a LH car when the intercooler hose falls off. I do hear a strange hissing sound after the car is shut off that I think is fuel returning to the thank, that could be completely unrelated but I figured it's worth mentioning. I checked the gap of the CPS and it's like 2.4mm, though I did give the whole wheel a quick coat of paint, but I don't think that should affect the sensor too much. I thought the CPS was new but it's also possible that it is defective though I'd be surprised.

I had to work later than expected today so I didn't have time/desire to connect the ECU to the computer tonight and see what's going on. I should be able to do that tomorrow so hopefully that will give some guidance, though I didn't think you could chart a CPS value but I'm sure it will give me more info than I have currently.

[DrewP]

You didn't leave a rag in the intake, did you?

I had a weird one a few weeks ago finishing up a 2.1 head swap for a friend - the 2.1 intake that Dave Kennedy sent me was missing the EGR blockoff plate under the throttle body, and I didn't notice until I was trying to figure out why it idled way too high and misfired like crazy.

[hutch]

You didn't leave a rag in the intake, did you?

I had a weird one a few weeks ago finishing up a 2.1 head swap for a friend - the 2.1 intake that Dave Kennedy sent me was missing the EGR blockoff plate under the throttle body, and I didn't notice until I was trying to figure out why it idled way too high and misfired like crazy.

I ran into that on my old '90 when I removed the EGR system, first it was the threads being stripped for the block off plate so it worked itself loose and it did what you were saying. Then the plug on the exhaust manifold shot out with a loud pop one day. That thing sounded like a WWI plane but it was terrifying because it happened at night so I thought the entire exhaust had fallen off.

Anyway, I was checking everything over for the umpteenth time and saw that the CPS wheel looks like its still 2 teeth off, I had taken the CPS out for some reason when reinstalling the shutter wheel and I must have been fooled because before it was way off my mark on the wheel. So when that was seemingly right under the hole for the sensor I must have jumped to a conclusion too fast.

So I need to decide if I want to take a drill to the bolt holes so I can clock it to the right orientation, and risk turning it into a $200 piece of scrap aluminum. Or just say screw it and forget trying to deal with getting a signal off the crank pulley and have a flywheel machined. Since it seems like everyone else had great success with this kit I feel I'm other doing something horribly wrong or there is something strange going on with my car. But, the flywheel and camshafts are both at TDC and the CPS is above the 18th tooth from the gap so something is off.

[spgftw]

You should still be able to get this to work by adjusting the ign_offset value in T5.

As I recall, the steps went something like this:

-set your idle ignition timing values to a single value, like 16 degrees.
-hook up a timing light, and see where you're at on the flywheel at idle (you might be so far off, you can't get a reading and have to estimate). The orange wire to the DI Cassette is number one cylinder for the timing light.
-start adjusting the ign_offset until you see 16 degrees via the timing light
-now set your ignition timing map back to normal as needed

Remember that ign_offset is 10x the degrees, so if your sensor is off by 10 degrees you need an offset of 100.

I've ridden in a car that is running an offset of something like 13 degrees (130 offset) and it runs great. Your injection timing may still be off based on what I've read, but I'm not totally convinced about this. Anyhow, you can change your offset in a few minutes of mucking around and it might just get you a running car.

[squaab99t]

You didn't leave a rag in the intake, did you?

I had a weird one a few weeks ago finishing up a 2.1 head swap for a friend - the 2.1 intake that Dave Kennedy sent me was missing the EGR blockoff plate under the throttle body, and I didn't notice until I was trying to figure out why it idled way too high and misfired like crazy.

I ran into that on my old '90 when I removed the EGR system, first it was the threads being stripped for the block off plate so it worked itself loose and it did what you were saying. Then the plug on the exhaust manifold shot out with a loud pop one day. That thing sounded like a WWI plane but it was terrifying because it happened at night so I thought the entire exhaust had fallen off.

Anyway, I was checking everything over for the umpteenth time and saw that the CPS wheel looks like its still 2 teeth off, I had taken the CPS out for some reason when reinstalling the shutter wheel and I must have been fooled because before it was way off my mark on the wheel. So when that was seemingly right under the hole for the sensor I must have jumped to a conclusion too fast.

So I need to decide if I want to take a drill to the bolt holes so I can clock it to the right orientation, and risk turning it into a $200 piece of scrap aluminum. Or just say screw it and forget trying to deal with getting a signal off the crank pulley and have a flywheel machined. Since it seems like everyone else had great success with this kit I feel I'm other doing something horribly wrong or there is something strange going on with my car. But, the flywheel and camshafts are both at TDC and the CPS is above the 18th tooth from the gap so something is off.

Before you start drilling holes lets check some basics.
1) Which adapter wheel do you have? On the back side is it hogged out in the area where the 4 screws go to hold the trigger wheel?

2) When looking down the engine from the top and forward the wheel should be turning clockwise. When it is viewed like that the sensor should see the -2 window first and as the engine comes to TDC the 20th tooth should start to come in the view of the sensor.

Paul has a good solution for fine tuning the crank reference angle by going into the software. Should not have to mess with that to get it to start and run.
Even if it is off by 10 degrees it should still run. It might be running for a short period of time because the ECU fires all ignitions at startup, so it can sync number one cylinder to see if it is on the exhaust or compression stroke.