Green '79 900 EMS

[RadioFlyer]

If you do stick in a 16v, can you post the details - like how to set up the motor mounts, what tranny you use, and how to mesh or change the fuel injection system and wiring? I'm thinking about eventually going the same route on my '80 if something ever goes terribly wrong with the B engine.

[DrewP]

I will definitely put up what the details are.

The mounts are the same as in my '85 (the rubber barrel mounts), the engine should drop right in, and the CIS fuel pump supplies plenty of fuel at a high enough pressure to work fine with the LH fuel injectors. The fuel supply line will need the correct banjo fitting put on, and the wiring harness has to be wired into the correct switched and constant +12v leads from the fuse box, but most of the rest of it should be pretty straightforward.

The easiest way to do it would be to have a donor car sitting next to your '80 and move everything over that doesn't line up.

I will keep the 4-speed trans so I don't have to monkey with swapping halfshafts and hubs and stuff, but almost everything else I would need I probably have on the shelf somewhere already.

[RadioFlyer]

So the trans mates right up? What year did those equivalent barrel motor mounts get changed? I have a late '88 16v with 55k miles ready to go. Thinking about T5 tho. Probably would have to swap a lot more for that to work.

[DrewP]

Mounts: According to eEuro it's "...900 8v(any) 81-88 all, 85 16v turbo, 86-90 2.0L 16v non/turbo without hydraulic motor mounts." The mounting points on the axle tunnels I believe are the same for hydraulic and rubber mounts, where the two studs drop through. Even if they aren't that's easy to drill if you already have a set of hydraulic mounts and the brackets that bolt to the engine for the later mounts. For the front you could either fab up a bracket to hold the later mount, or swap on an early front cover onto a later 5-speed trans so the front mount lines up.

The later 5-speed has different size inner driver cups, you can swap the 4-speed ones into a later 5-speed to make that work.

T5: Not really much different. Still have to wire in the harness, and the only thing that'll be different on the '88 is it needs the later 3-wire idle control valve, and needs the variable throttle position switch like came on 2.3L 9000's and 2.1L 900's, and the crank position sensor bracket and trigger wheel have to be added somewhere.

There is a thread on SaabLink (which I haven't been following that closely) about running T5.2 on a C900 because it uses the same gapped shutter wheel for a crank sensor that's in the C900 distributor, so there's no need to buy / make CPS bracket and trigger wheel attachment.

Trans: The 16V B202 will bolt right to the 4-speed (if your '80 has a 4-speed, can't remember if they got 4- or 5-) If you want to put in a 5-speed you'll have to either modify the shifter housing, or install a 5-speed housing so that you can get it into the 5th and reverse gates.

There will be some other minor stuff, like re-routing heater hoses and maybe rad. hoses, and things like that, but nothing you can't figure out in a decently equipped home shop with a decent stock of spare parts and odds and ends.

[Geoff]

If you want to stay with the B, let me know. I should have a spare B turbo head.

Both the B and H (8v) engines will explode cam carriers at high rpms.

You might be able to get away with a cam carrier swap, I don't think the 8v cars have interference engines(?). We once had an '83 900T come into the shop that the owner's girlfriend had overrevved (automatic box, must have left it in "1"). I seem to remember cleaning things and replacing the cam carrier and some lifter buckets and the car was OK.

[RadioFlyer]

Hmmm.... Very interesting that part about 5.2 not needing a shutter wheel. What's the difference between 5.2 and 5.5? I know basically nothing about T5 except that it's something that I apparently want and I'm collecting parts as I find them.

[Jordan]

5.2 uses the DI/APC trigger from 89-92 9000 turbos. It was a 1 year only system for 1993 Turbo. The hardware is slightly different for the ECU. They were all automatics in this country so most people stayed away from trying to tune them, but T5Suite makes it possible. The pickup uses the hall effect sensor that mounts to the oil pump housing behind the crank pulley instead of a VR sensor that is mounted in the block for 5.5. Other than that the systems are pretty similar. Much more development has gone into 5.5 since it is far more common. It was noticed that tuning companies were copying 5.2 binaries onto 5.5 boxes which opened the door for the relatively scarce hardware. My plan is to use the system on my '90 S, but I'm already backed up on projects.. so it might be a while until I get around to it.

[RadioFlyer]

Cool. Thanks Jordan. If you ever get around to installing it, can you do a writeup? I would love to see it.

[Luke]

5.2 uses the DI/APC trigger from 89-92 9000 turbos. It was a 1 year only system for 1993 Turbo. The hardware is slightly different for the ECU. They were all automatics in this country so most people stayed away from trying to tune them, but T5Suite makes it possible. The pickup uses the hall effect sensor that mounts to the oil pump housing behind the crank pulley instead of a VR sensor that is mounted in the block for 5.5. Other than that the systems are pretty similar. Much more development has gone into 5.5 since it is far more common. It was noticed that tuning companies were copying 5.2 binaries onto 5.5 boxes which opened the door for the relatively scarce hardware. My plan is to use the system on my '90 S, but I'm already backed up on projects.. so it might be a while until I get around to it.

And as I recall you actually had the rally-ho motor running on 5.2, but due to other issues that were misdiagnosed it was not run on that last year?

I have a harness all set to use 5.2 as well, but not sure when I'll have time to install either...

[Jordan]

yeah I had RallyHo! running on a stock automatic 5.2 computer. I haven't been able to make a 5.5 into a 5.2 box, but I haven't messed around with it much yet, plus I have an actual 5.2 box.

I made a 5.2 binary for Luke and myself for a c900. Injectors were actually larger/different than the standard red tops SAAB used 94-99 which is proportional to the software injector scaling so it isn't THAT much different. All in all , not a bad way to go , but the hall effect sensors are NLA and expensive and difficult to find even from Honeywell. Also more prone to heat/contamination failure...and a pain to change.

[DrewP]

Good news everyone!

I set up a time to pick this up after work, the guy said it comes with everything in the picture, so it comes with a trans too!

*happy dance*

[Geoff]

BOOO! Needs more B motor!

[Jordan]

nice score on the trans

[DrewP]

BOOO! Needs more B motor!

LOL.

Well, the white 99 is getting a T5'd 16V, and I have an old customer who wants me to put his built Lesco 16V engine into his '78 99T (his SPG got smushed by a bus) and I'll get both those B engines to add to the stockpile, not sure on timeline. The green car may well get pushed to the back of the shop in favor of other projects for now, we'll see. Then I'll have a factory turbo B engine to put in, fun fun fun!

[RadioFlyer]

It looks like it's in a cave. ... is that cave art on the wall behind it?