Project Loki - 1988 classic SAAB turbo

[Adrian Thompson]

May I introduce to you the one and only project Loki…tadadadaaaaaaa

A 1988 SAAB 900 Turbo

So for those who have seen and suffered through my various threads on what car, or asking questions about E30’s, Rx7’s Probes, SAAB’s etc. You’ll know that I’ve been looking for a cheap, sub $1k car that I can spend another $1k on over the next year as a project to build a toy car. It’s intended purpose is to NOT be my daily driver and so NOT have to be relied upon for any essential purpose so I can make compromises in its build that I wouldn’t want to have in a street car. I want to use it for the occasional track day, TSD’s, Rallycross and possibly even some traditional parking lot cone dodging, although my interest there has been waning of late. I’ve done the Detroit region TSD school a couple of times and really want to try that, plus threads like Irish44j’s (Josh Hicky) amazing E30 rallycross build that’s on just about every forum out there, have convinced me I have to give it a try. If that’s not my bag baby I can go back to pavement pounding.

I really wanted a car that hits my emotional buttons, which means mainly 80’s cars as that’s when I was coming of age, and they must have a real top line motorsports heritage, believe it or not, that’s where the Miata falls down. For all the gazillion events they’ve entered and won, nothing has been at an international level. I didn’t grow up seeing Miata’s enter the British tour car championship, or national rally championship let alone European or world touring cars or WRC. Car’s like the XR4ti, E30, SAAB turbo, FB/FC Rx7’s are close enough to their older or European cousins (Sierra Cosworth, E30M3, factory SAAB 99’s Group B FB Rx7 ) etc. to still hit my emotional button. So too to a lesser extranet did the Fiat Spider and a few others.
Anyway here’s the end result of the questions, research, selling stuff and wasted trips to view rusty cars.

[Adrian Thompson]

After asking lots of questions about different cars and viewing various cars over the summer that were either too far gone or just didn’t hit my emotional WANT button, I was asking on the Saabrally forums about rust on a car I was considering in Grand Rapids. The general consensus was no, but Matt (dabird on GRM and SAABrally) popped up and said he had a rust free ex Colorado car for sale in Indiana. Great, Indiana’s one state down from MI, I can be there soon. Not so fast, he’s in New Albany Indiana, that’s not exactly next door to Michigan, instead it’s about 5 blocks in from the Ohio River or ¼ of a mile from Louisville Kentucky. Gulp; let’s look at some more pics first. Matt was great, totally honest about the condition and what was needed so after much hemming and hawing it was off South to have a look with money in hand just in case. Well, to be honest after looking at pics, exchanging about 20 e-mails etc. I was 99% certain I was going to be bringing it back. So after explaining the attraction to a tatty looking 25 year old Saab to my massively understanding wife (boy am I in for a long honey do list now :o ) I cajoled good friend and enabler Tom Spangler into making the trip in his Ecoboost F150 with trailer in tow. Now it’s one thing for me to persuade my wife that I’m off on a fool’s errand to get a junker car, but it’s quite another for a friend to bid his whole family good bye to leave before they’re awake and not return until the kids are asleep, but he’s a hero and did it willingly. Having left his place about 6:15 Tom arrived at my pad at a more civilized 7:00am. Unfortunately the promised perfect weather was running late and we set off in thick fog so you couldn’t see more than a 100feet ahead at first. We were well into enemy territory (Ohio) before the fog burned off and we could see the dangers of the flying donut patrol (Ohio State Police). Now as anyone forced to drive through Ohio will know, the flying donut patrol are some of the strictest revenue collectors in the great lakes area. Forget the Michigan’s de facto 85mph speed limit, 5 over is jail bate and 2 over with Michigan plates (and Worse a UofM sticker in the back window) means you’re lucky to escape with a life sentence. But towing a trailer, prudent driving and one eye on the gas gauge meant that our speeds was always within legal bounds and so we were fine the whole trip. Many, and I mean many others weren’t as lucky as we saw literally 25-30 cops with people pulled over as we drove the full length of Ohio and back. They were out in full force all day, the Ohio state coffers must in flush by now. Anyway, 6 ½ hours after leaving home and into our 4th state of the day, we drive up the road to find Matt waiving to us from the side walk. Introductions over with it’s on to the car which turns out to be exactly as described by Matt in his e-mails. I’ll cover the condition of the car in the next post.
So, I pay the man, get the title signed over and it’s time to load up and head home.




PO Matt (dabird on SAABrally and GRM Forums) removing his plate as we load Loki up and haul her away. That's Tom Spangler in the background strapping him down to the trailer. Big thanks to Tom for spending 14 hours in the car and using his truck and trailer for the nearly 800 mile round trip so missing the Lions (loose) and the US Grand Prix in the process.



Last shot before the off. Matt saying good bye to 'his' now MY car

[Adrian Thompson]

Again, no issue with the trip, we did have to stop and tighten the straps a couple of times, and at lunch we slightly re-positioned the car, after that it never moved an inch. The biggest excitement all the way home was stopping for gas. I start abusing my credit card (although an overall trip average around 15mpg was very good for a 10,000lb. all up weight of truck, trailer and car) while Tom heads into the station for a bio break. ‘Holy E36 M3, its pissing gas out over here’ Sure enough I go round the other side of the pump and gas is coming out from the nozzle/hose onto the ground. Tom runs in to tell the attendant who is remarkably unconcerned and I finish up. Thinking about it later we shouldn’t have told him, I should have just stuck a bucket under the stream of gas and filled up for free, oh well next time. So the best part of 800 miles and a little over 14 hours after leaving, we’re back at my place to unload. My wife comes out to survey the damage along with my next door neighbor who I always attend the Sno*Drift rally with who had no Idea I was bringing home a toy until I started sending cryptic text’s to rouse his interest on the drive back. Many many thanks to Tom and he’s off another 40mins home with my sunglasses, iPod and the title (I hope!!) still in his truck. Yup, I’m a dumb ass when excited, I have a brain like a sieve.



On the road home

Tom the driver looking as happy as me


There's a SAAB back there!


Quick, it's gaining!!



The fuckers trying to pass!!!

[Adrian Thompson]

Surveying the patient. As I said last time, the car was as described. Here’s a rundown and some pics that Matt had sent during our e-mail negotiations.



Nose rash where Matt opened the hood and caught a chain link fence scratching it.



Fundamentally a rust free ex Colorado car where the roads aren’t made of solid salt for 4 months out of the year. There is some rust at the typical RH lower frame rail near the control arm mount, but not yet an issue and easily savable. All the usual SAAB places, door bottoms, rockers, wheel arches corners of boot (sorry hatch/trunk) corner of rear seat pan, front and rear wheel arch inners, all good. There is some surface rust on the A pillar which I’ll pop the screen out and fix, plus a little bubble on the driver’s rocker that’s protected that might need a little patch. But truly, for a 25 year old car it’s as close as you’ll see to rust free in this part of the world, especially with its paltry 230k+ miles on the clock. It was great to deal with Matt, that rare thing a honest seller who knows what his car is.

[Adrian Thompson]

Underside of Right Front lower control arm mount. This is the most serious rust on the car and the area that normally kills 99's and 900's. This isn't bad and very saveable. Initialy I will get rid of the rust, treat and cover with POR 15. This will be cut out and re-welded inthe future, but really isn't as bad as it looks.

Look, rust free rockers and underbody!!!!!

Previously the driver’s door has been hit and filled in the center (not rust) it looks worse in the pictures than in real life, I was hoping to get some spare doors from Tim but they weren’t available as his aunt had tossed them out!!!! aaggghhhhh!!!

[Adrian Thompson]

Back seat doesn't look too bad, carpet's dirty and needs cleaning and dying black

While the rear seats are good, the fronts are rough. I do have a set of mint blue/purpl​e velour ones to replace them with


Dash, dirty but there. lot's of cracks will need refinishin​g. Nothing some filling and either textrured paint or flocking can't cure!



Ain't that mint!!! Headliner panel is coming out for re-coverin​g. I knew all this in advance.

[Adrian Thompson]

So, what needs to be done, when and how? Here's the start of my to do list. Not finished, but it's a starting point.

Engine / Transmission

1.Replace front engine mount - Front mount is completely shot, this needs to be replaced to really make the car drivable.

2.Replace and rebuild shifter bushings - Linkage is sloppy, will do while interior is out.

3.Fix Boost issue - Base boost into yellow zone, get's full boost if APC is capped. Not sure how to trouble shoot this yet.

4.Replace side engine mounts - These felt OK

5.2nd gear Syncro - Long term, double clutch for now!

6.Add boost - Audi cold start injector HOBBS switch and APC mods

Body work

1.Fix surface rust on RHS A pillar - Windshield out, does not look serious yet.

2.Sunroof mechanism and drains - Worked to open, could hear it trying to close but had to manually crank, don't know if the issue is all electrical or mechanical as well.

3.Fix RHS front LCA mount - Need to catch before it becomes an issue. To start with clean, de-rust and protect with POR15. Cut and weld later.

4.Rear hatch shocks.

5.Door glass slow to raise lower - Remove, clean and re-build mechanism while door cards are out.

6.Refinish bumper.

Interior
1. Replace seats - Mint purple velour seats on hand. Can you re-dye velour?
2. Remove carpet, clean and re-dye - Spray or soak dye?
3. clean, repair and re-dye door, re-quarter etc. trim.
4. Remove, recover headliner and pillar trim
5. Make sunroof interior panel/cover - Cover is missing, bare metal right now.
6. Recover hatch cover.
7. Replace seat belts - Get rid of the icky mouse trap passive and fit real three point belts. Investigate junk yard availability.
8. Clean and re-fit center console.
9. Remove dash, fix cracks, re-finish Either flock or textured paint?
10. Add radio


Suspension, wheels and tires
1. Check flex lines, replace with braided if needed - Brakes feel solid but wooden, new master cyl and recent booster gives me a good feeling these are OK.
2. New pads - Check what the pads are, do they need replacing, worked but little feel, maybe just need surface cleaning and warming up.
3. Get snow/rally tires for Rallycross and TSD's - Used rally of cheap snows??
4. Replace shocks - Bilsteins - Need to drive it to be sure, but current shocks are at least serviceable.
5. New springs - Have some softer and taller 900S springs, measure wire diameter and see of cutting 1 or 2 coils would get a reasonable rate and ride height, out with the calculator!
6. Camber -check, make shims to add
7. Get larger wheels and tires for autocross track days - Fox body 15x7 turbines? With 225 ST tires?
8. Replace bushings - As needed down the road. Wiggle test while driving shows nothing major wrong here.

Electrical
1. Fix fuel pump relay block and replace solenoid - Solenoid works, but car would stop after about an hour. Could be worn female (body side) connectors coming loose when warm. Currently has an on/off switch in it's place. I need to sort this out, either replace whole block which also includes another solenoid or find another one. Is this a konwn issue???
2. Rebuild window and sunroof switches - I think this is contacts, switches worked after fiddling and un-plugging/plugging in a few times.
3. Check operation of sunroof motor and gears, not sure if this is electrical, mechanical or both?? BTW who the hell fits the sun roof motor under the trunk floor at the very very back of the car!!!!!! At least it's easy to get at to wind closed, but man those are some long ass cables!!!
4. Fit a radio - Must have an aux in, beyond that, it has to be cheap. Way down the list.

Other potential prep down the road

Make skid plate/underbody protection for rallycross TSD
Lights for TSD
Remove front sway bar for better traction with no LSD and balance with springs?

[Adrian Thompson]

OK, let’s talk fule pump relay issue. The following is what Matt told me in e-mails and when I went to see the car.

fuel pump is run off switch instead of relay. the pins were loose in relay socket and the car would just die randomly after warming up for the first few months i owned it. once i figured this out, I jumped the realay socket with slightly larger connectors wired to a switch and it's never had the problem since.

the fuel pump relay wasn't really the issue. the issue is in the socket the relay plugs into. i think what was happening was the female connectors in the socket weren't making solid contact with the male pins on the fuel pump relay. the car would start and run fine and then after driving it would just die and not restart. sometimes it would restart in an hour sometimes it would have to sit a couple days. i think the metal in connecters would expand and contract based on temp and cause a bad connection to the fuel pump relay. i tried 5 or 6 different relays in the car with the same results. finally i tried just jumping the relay socket. i think the connectors i used were a little bigger than the pins on the relay and the cars has run fine on the switch ever since. I’ve heard it's possible to tighten the connections on the socket but i haven't tried it.

These are some crappy pics (it was dark when I got home) of the relay block in question. Is it possible to extract the wires from the back of the block, tighten up the female connectors and re-insert them in the same or a new block, or should I look at swapping for a new block? Also do people think that this is really the issue (loose connectors) or is it likely to be something else?

This shows the relay block with the switch jumped into it.




Spare relays that Matt tried, all had the same issue so hopefully eliminating them from the equation


Also when I got home last night this is what I saw. My neighbor Dan had donated an old Thule Ski / Bike rack to the project

[Crazyswede]

Congrats. Looks like you found a good car to start with. Solid enough that it won't be a complete nightmare and rough enough that you can have the satisfaction of fixing all sorts of stuff.

[Adrian Thompson]

OK, brain moving fast today. Over on the GRM forum someone sent a link on how to beef up thefront mount by packing the space between the mount and the limiting bracket. I read that and then went to look up getting a new front mount. Looking at a pic of the engine mount on Rock auto I thought there has to be a better way than replacing it and adding some packing between the mount and the safety strap. So I figure why not make one? If this part is so failure prone and so crucial to shifter feel and transmission durability make it stiff, but not truly solid. Solid mounts scare me as they have no give and so no shock adsorption which to me means you would end up cracking the case, mounting flange or body structure. So I figure a flat beefy metal plate (say 1/4" steel) with a high density rubber or poly donut for some give with a big ass bolt through the middle. A clearance hole in the steel plate so the bolt can move while supported by the rubber/poly disc.

This is a quick and dirty sketch done in Excel of all things. Not to scale, don't use it or little kittens will explode in hell, build at your grandchildren’s own risk etc. In other words this is for discussion purposes only at this point.



BTW, how do you upload pics rather than hotlinking them?

[Adrian Thompson]

Yet another Q. What's the difference between the front and side engine mounts? They have different part #'s and different prices, but they look very similar. Are they the same dimensions with different durometer or are they different sizes? If they are the same, would my super ghetto sketch above work for all three?

[Crazyswede]

The motor mount you are describing was made by someone years ago. If I dig around I may be able to find pictures....I think it was Damien on the old Turbo mailing list that had them made up and were basically what you have described....A flat plate with some poly bushings




they are listed for sale here...have no idea if they are still selling them:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/solidmotormounts.htm


Edit: you will want to inspect the body structure before you put this in...make sure it is rust free and there are no signs of fatigue in the metal. The stock mount dampens the vibration from the motor to the body but also helps soften any forces from the motor to the body. If there is any wear in the mount surface you will only increase the wear with a solid unit. Odds are it is fine as I that area stays pretty clean.

[hutch]

Cool project, looks like a solid car.

I have one of those mounts in my 86, I'll try and snap a picture though there's not much to see that can't be seen in the above picture. I really like it though, there is a noticeable difference in NVH but its well worth it for the precise shifting, at least that's what I tell myself. One other option, though slightly more involved, is to use the solid rubber mounts from older 900s. I believe you need to swap transmission covers for this to work though so keep that in mind.

[Crazyswede]

Cool project, looks like a solid car.

I have one of those mounts in my 86, I'll try and snap a picture though there's not much to see that can't be seen in the above picture. I really like it though, there is a noticeable difference in NVH but its well worth it for the precise shifting, at least that's what I tell myself. One other option, though slightly more involved, is to use the solid rubber mounts from older 900s. I believe you need to swap transmission covers for this to work though so keep that in mind.

You have to swap the front transmission cover in order to mount the older style barrel mount. And the older style barrel mounts are not any stiffer. You are better off keeping the mount you have and going with the plate idea. Geoff made us some solid poly barrel mounts a few years ago and they worked very well...but they were basically on par with a solid aluminum mount. Great shifting and no noticeable vibration above idle.

[Adrian Thompson]

Does anyone know what dimension the stuf that goes to the trans is?

Looking at Energy suspension, they have a mount kit 4101 that looks perfect
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/pr ... rod=9.4101


The inner sleeve is 1/2" I.D. so that's an M12 in Metric with .7mm clearance or less than 1/32", that should be perfect.