Project Loki - 1988 classic SAAB turbo

[Jordan]

Perhaps just leak down from valve seals. Hopefully that will stop too

[Adrian Thompson]

Excuses? I’ve got a few.

OK, so I walked away from it in disgust for a couple of weeks. Then came thanksgiving, then came slipping three discs in my back which laid me up, holidays, becoming a grandfather, fixing bathroom for the daughter who made me a grandfather etc. etc.

Yes I suck.

So I finally cleared some of the crap off the car for a quick look and fired it up again. First per Geoff’s suggestions I tried pulling the vacuum line of the FPR, of course it just snapped off, so I connected the broken end back to the FPR using some clear tube so I could see if gas was being sucked through the regulator when running. I managed to keep it running for 3-4 mins, but to do so I had to constantly blip the throttle to wide open. It ran like shit, but would occasionally feel too clear before going super rough again. More smoke out the back and after a while what smelled like wood smoke coming from under the car. I couldn’t check what that was or the tailpipe while it was running as it wanted to die if I wasn’t blipping it. So once it stalled I looked around. On the whole I think it’s the best news I can expect. First I didn’t see any more oil around the turbo flanges. Second I could see anything amiss by looking under the middle of the car where I what smelt like wood smoke was coming from. Then I looked at the tail pipe and at first my heart sank. This is what I found.




But on wiping it up and closer inspection, what I thought was oil coming out of the tail pipe was liquidy / watery soot. I think this is good news as I think it corroborates Geoff’s theory that it could be fuel pressure. I guess it’s way way way pig rich and constantly trying to foul itself up. I assume I need to be at WOT as even though that puts even more gas into the engine, at least some air car get in as well. So, let’s go back to Geoff’s post.

That white smoke looks like fuel. Two potential causes I've experienced:
1) Catalytic converter flooded with fuel from all the cranking/non-start issues (usually works it's way out)
2) Bad fuel pressure regulator. - Remove the vacuum line from it and see if it's full of gas. Attach a syringe for mighty-vac to the regulator vacuum line, it should hold vacuum

My guess is #2 since it wouldn't start a third time.

I don't think it's 1. After sitting for a month and a half I would think any gas in the cat would have evaporated or seeped away.
As per above I think it's 2, but I'm not sure what you mean me to do with the syringe to the regulator. Do I pull the syringe out to create a vacuum? Should I let go, surely it would just suck the plunger back in? I'm not sure what you mean.

I guess I should pull the plugs now and change them, wires, oil, coolant etc. and sort out the fuel pressure. Off to Rock auto to look for replacement regulators.

BTW low single digits and a wide open garage plus failing light and the car still buried under a mountain of stuff is my excuse for quitting the other day.

[Geoff]

but I'm not sure what you mean me to do with the syringe to the regulator. Do I pull the syringe out to create a vacuum? Should I let go, surely it would just suck the plunger back in?

Yup! If it sucks the plunger back in then the regulator might be good. If the plunger doesn't get sucked back in (or you suck up fuel) then the diaphragm in the fuel pressure regulator is ruptured. You can also use a mighty-vac instead of a syringe.

[Adrian Thompson]

OK, I need to try a syringe. If I don't get fuel though, it could still be kaput correct?

So the failure mode is the vacuum doesn't reduce the pressure so it runs pig rich. Sounds great. Thinking along those lines then a vacuum leak will also make it run pig rich. I guess I should replace all the vacuum lines as PM then.

[gmreider]

Actually , if the diaphragm in the pressure regulator has failed, the vacuum line sucks raw fuel into the intake manifold.

[Adrian Thompson]

RockAuto have a CARTER Part # 404046 Fuel Pressure regulator on closeout for less than $30. Any reason not to get that over the 'AIRTEX / WELLS Part # 5G1019' at $68 or the 'STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # PR362' at $98?

[Jordan]

OE bosch for $72 http://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/5608/Fu ... r-7564131/

or I'm sure there are gobs of good used floating around.

[Adrian Thompson]

OK, syringe says dead FPR. The only syringe I had was a 3.0ml. Using the bit of vac hose you see in the pic I could pull it out to 3.0ml with my finger over the end and it would pop back into 1/2ml which was indicates a good seal to the hose. On the car I pull it out all the way and it doesn't move at all, so I figure the FPR is dead. This ASSumes that 3.0ml is enough vacuum?





So, I"ve decided I may as well get a 3.0 BAR replacement to guard against future mods rather than a stock 2.5 BAR. Anyone want to sell me one before I head of to e-bay or Swedish Dynamics for one? Also off to get 10 feet of 3.0mm vacuum hose to change everything. Which brings up another Q. Is there some simplified vacuum routing if you're not worried about emissions or just cut and replace stock for stock?

Thanks everyone for putting up with my inane questions. I realize most projects on here are real builds not some middle age grandpa puttering around for 10 mins here and there, but I do appreciate the way you're all willing to jump in and help.

Cheers.

[Saabina]

A 3.0 FPR can be found on a classic non-turbo 900S at the U-Pull-It yard for just a few $$. But, unless you are prepared to go to 30# Red Top injectors, tweaked APC and re-programmed ECU, it's a waste of time. Blue Denso 24# Ford injectors and a 2.8 BAR FPR is a good combination for normal use with a tweaked APC. The Blue Denso's also work well with a stock 2.5 BAR FPR - better idle and smoother drivability. My 2¢...

[Adrian Thompson]

Reply to Saabina, not sure where you located, I thought everyone on here was located in New England so you should understand winter. I'm in Detroit, I'm not heading to a pick and pull in single digit weather, besides, this weekend I'm off for my annual trek to the Sno*Drift rally to watch rally cars. Never seen a Saab there in the 14 years I've been going though.

Another thing. A Saab 9000 in a pick and pull, I bet I haven't seen twenty 9000's on the road in South East Michigan in the 20+ years I've lived here!! the chances of finding one in a pick and pull are slightly lower than holding the world snow ball fight finals in death valley in June with locally sourced snow

OK, I'll stick with the CARTER Part # 404046 from Rock Auto new for $30 if I don't need the 3.0BAR to support future upgrades at this point. If someone has a known good one they want to sell me I'd rather send some money to someone on here as small repayment to all the help you all give me.

Cheers all.

[Saabina]

Hello Adrian:
Yeah, a bit warmer out here on west coast. I wrote classic non-turbo 900S not 9000. If you want a 3.0 BAR FPR, I'll send you one.
Cheers!

[Mezzanine]

Adrian, I've got a Swedish Dynamics FPR and some Blue Denso 24# Ford injectors that I'm not using if you want to make an offer... Shoot me a PM.

[Adrian Thompson]

The day was not a total failure, maybe even a partial success?

It suns (badly) it even moved under its own power 1/3 of a mile around our sub doing its best kangaroo impression the whole way.

So I fitted a ‘new’ 3.0BAR FPR I got from Saabina. It now runs although as can be seed from these quick vids badly.

At first I needed to keep blipping the gas to keep it running:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... =picasacid

After a while it settled down to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... =picasacid

So I tried driving it and it was like a bucking bronco, I decided that I must have a massive vacuum leak but I can’t find it. I guess I need to spray around some starting fluid and see I can cause it to surge as a result. I thought later than maybe the timing could be way off, but I”ve never removed the distributor itself, just had the cap off and repaired (well bodged with black silicon) the Hall effect sensor rubber grommet in the side of it, but none of that should have affected the timing. I guess I need to check the Bentley manual for a vacuum

[Crazyswede]

are all of the intake boots properly seated with tightened hose clamps and no leaks?

[Adrian Thompson]

are all of the intake boots properly seated with tightened hose clamps and no leaks?

As far as I can feel they are. I will fire up again tonight and spray with carb cleaner / EZ start and see if that causes the engine to race.

I'm looking for a vacuum diagram, this is the best I've found so far.