T5-ing my 99

[99Super]

So, I've been trying to get T5 into FrankenSAAB for a while now, but I've finally got some momentum going on this and
just pulled a complete system from a 95 9K CS.
I'm still going through MikeD's and 99Sven's write ups, but as this is for my race car, I really want the minimum required to install it.

This will be a T5.2 setup due to space limitations.

I have Jason Erickson flashing my ECU to eliminate the TCS, cruise, etc. but I really need to know if there is a write up out there with just the most basic installation...or is MikeD's it?

Also, where the heck are the 2 main relays? it sounds like they are good to have to prevent voltage flyback to the ECU. I couldn't find them at the yard this morning.

Has anyone fit the speed sensor into a 99? Fit looks tight. I don't really need a Speedo (I can use a bicycle unit or buy an aftermarket VDO if I really want speed), but I think boost limiting in 1 and 2 is a good thing.

I'm going to have a lot more questions but I really need this thing to run strong before the Maryhill hillclimb in late Sept.

All help and advice appreciated!

John

[Jordan]

John,

As for installation, it you simply need to pull the old harness out and put the new harness in and add the relay pack which come through the large grey connector on your harness. Extend any wires for the sensors needed, connect to appropriate chassis connections, const. power, switched ignition , tach out, Check engine light if desired... There are many parts of the stock harness that you do not need to use. All of that wiring is done off the grey plug, I made a chart earlier that should help you.

download/file.php?id=1264

To wire the relay pack I'd suggest using a diode/resistor type relay, standard c900 metal fuel pump/main relays do not have flyback protection. The standard ABS housing works great because there are spots for fuses and relays, they just need to be rewired. The ECU triggers the ground (85) circuit for both the fuel and main relay.

Are you using a 5.2 ECU? Either way you'll have a to move the CPS signal to a different connector location, give it power and pin 36 has to be grounded.

[DrewP]

Ditto on the little ABS relay holder, it'll make things convenient and don't need much rewiring.

[99Super]

I looked at it and thought it might work nice, but left it behind. I have to make another trip out there so I'll pick it up then. I may or may not use it, I'd like to make the new relays fit in stock locations wherever possible. Most of the required wiring goes through the Lambda relay socket, it would be nice if I could make the main relay work in that port.
I'm putting together a plan using Jordan's and Luke's wiring diagrams and my 99 diagrams.
All the CIS, Ignition and APC wiring is out. I think I just lightened the car by 50lbs!

I am using the 5.2 ECU and I've seen notes about moving the wires, but I'm having trouble finding the exact procedures. Can you point me to it Jordan? That's my biggest single holdup right now (besides re-flashing the ECU).

I've spent many hours digging through other forums looking at write-ups and the best info is to be found right here!

John

[Jordan]

Luke sent me a file a while ago with t5 differences, butI have written down the only critical component is the CPS signal IN gets moved from pin 41 to 40. The hall effect sensor needs to be powered where the 5.5 VR sensor does not.. which comes from pin 64 and again, pin 36 should be grounded. Other than that a 5.5 harness is near identical.

I'm not sure what you mean by the lambda socket, I've never had a 99 with an 02 sensor!

5.2 is also setup to run different sized (larger) injectors than 5.5 and the map scaling is different (tables are smaller). Unless you can actively flash your own box, I guess I would sort of suggest not going to 5.2. But it never hurts to try...it is not a big deal to switch back over to 5.5 if you change you mind on CPS generators.

[99Super]

Thanks Jordan! I plan to build it so that if 5.2 is a fail, I can go with the modded flywheel and use 5.5. Fact is, due to clearance, neither Dennis' nor MikeD's pulley based trigger wheels will work so I'm pushing forward w/ 5.2 since I already have all the parts!

5.2 has larger injectors? I thought that the 93 9KT's had the "Red Top" injectors. That's also what came off the 95. Hopefully the box I get from Jason will get me running while I get my own tuning system set up.

If I get it wired enough to test before I get my modded box back, will it at least *start* using a stock 5.2 box?

On the 78> 99s the Lambda system is what kept the K-Jet system emissions compliant. It is a system entirely separate from the K-Jet so it has it's own relay but is tied into the start relay, fuel pump relay, etc. For example, I may be able to use the several now-unused +15s from the lambda or fuel pump relay to power the O2 preheater, DI cassette or Injectors. The green and white +15 in is coming straight from the green and white from the 99 ignition relay. I basically have to just replace the "Lambda" relay with the T5 "Main". I'm going to run the white "check engine" to the LED I used to have tied to my APC for visual knock.

Not only do the relay systems match up well, but most of the wire colors match too!

[Jordan]

'93 9000T used Lucus 39# injectors instead of the Bosch "red top" 33# ones. The system will definitely run, but no guarantee on how well. It is certainly a very flexible system that allows for a lot of "not-ideal" components, which is sort of the point.

Also there are no 2.0L stock 5.2 tunes, they are all 2.3L Turbos with with the US TSC or EU Non-TCS spec. I did scale a 5.2 map to a 2L Turbo, but it is untested at the moment. I was hoping Luke or I would have installed it into a car by now...but it has been a very busy few months!

[Luke]

I'd love to see you do 5.2, mostly because I think its just so cool that it's 100% bolt on parts! And also then once you get it dialed in I can hopefully use your tune to convert my daily driver :)


This was a summary I put together of the difference, I set my harness up with wiring for both, so it could be configured to run off either style trigger.

[DrewP]

I've got some 2 relay holders I can send you - I'm going to dig through parts tonight after work and see what I find that you're missing.

[99Super]

Next question.
My wiring harness has 2 engine temp sensors. One at the intake manifold w/ yellow and black wires (same as old ECU location), and one at the t-stat housing (same as the old analog gauge location). Can I just ignore/delete the t-stat location and use my old probe and wiring? The wires do not appear to go to the ECU.
I'm roughing out my harness today, it's still too hot to work outside.

John

[Luke]

Next question.
My wiring harness has 2 engine temp sensors. One at the intake manifold w/ yellow and black wires (same as old ECU location), and one at the t-stat housing (same as the old analog gauge location). Can I just ignore/delete the t-stat location and use my old probe and wiring? The wires do not appear to go to the ECU.
I'm roughing out my harness today, it's still too hot to work outside.

John

Yep, that's just bundled with the trionic harness (along with the yellow starter wire) and can just be removed.

[99Super]

Great, thanks! I'll do the same w/ the blue oil pressure but still route them with my T5 harness and quick dis-con.

Diagrams show pin 57 to be Yellow - TPS signal out. It's empty on my harness. Is it used? 5.5 Auto ECU. I'm guessing it's also edu related or some such thing. Confirm before I pull it?

Diagrams show "PK MAP signal out +.5v" on pin 20. My pin 20 is empty, but I have a yellow/red on 21 that appears (according to my meter) to be part of 19/20 (shared power?) Do I need this??

So far Pin 64 Red CPS 5.2 power is added; Pin 40, green/red CPS 5.2 Signal is added. Need to figure the ground.
Pin 34 green/red is re-purposed to become White 8.

[99Super]

Last question...for today.

The two wires from the speed sensor are black and white. The diagrams call for a green speed signal in on H-70 pin 12, ECU pin 39.

As I'm not using LH 2.4, how do I route the speed sensor wire to give signal to the ECU?

If I get that and pins 57 and 21 figured out and I'm ready to start final assembly of the engine harness.

[Jordan]

If you have a TCS car harness then you'll need to move some pins over for the correct TPS wiring. Should be power, signal ground and signal. If you are using a 5.2 end computer , wire according to 5.5 diagram with the exception of the wires I noted in the above post. If you don't have a TPS , you likely don't have an Idle control wires either. That stuff needs to be added , if you want to use it. Idle control on a racecar I found really isn't necessary, but if you have the stuff...why not.

I found the speed sensor from a 9000 not to work correctly ( I don't think it goes straight into the ECU, it is conditioned by the ABS computer I believe)... but maybe I didn't fuss enough over it.

[99Super]

The harness is 95 9000, just like the diagram (lucky me!), there will be NO TCS.

Pin 36 will go to ground. I just read where pin 59 must have +15 power as well? If so I'll run a jumper in the box as I damaged the pin during removal attempt. Cruise gets grounded and A/C gets power??