Twin Scroll Turbo

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squaab99t
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Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby squaab99t » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:28 am

New project time. Any of you build an exhaust manifold to incorporate a twin scroll turbo? I currently run a Garrett gt3071R .50 A/R on the compressor and .63 A/R on the turbine. Pulls like a freight train 3500 rpm and up, but below that she is a little laggy.
http://saabrally.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2091&p=27180&hilit=gt3071r#p27180

My plan is to upgrade the turbine housing with a twin scroll and build a new manifold. Will need a new downpipe due to the V-band outlet. Oh and some new ext wastegates and plumbing.

Image
Folks at ATP suggested a .83 A/R. I think I remember having to go with .63 because of the T3 flange and 5 bolt downpipe interfaces I wanted to keep at the time.
This is the adapter that they sell to get the secondaries (merge collector) to feed the turbo.
merge.JPG


Double slip 2-1 collectors, I will offload to Burns or ReidWashbon
Image

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squaab99t
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slowly procuring parts

Postby squaab99t » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:36 pm

Had these burned out of 3/8" 304 stainless. 1 5/8" od
P1120491 (Large).JPG

P1120493 (Large).JPG


Twin scroll housing Vband in and out.
P1120509 (Large).JPG

P1120518 (Large).JPG

I need to create a design solution to support the whole turbo and wastegate. I will not be making the header out of sch 10 like most who use the manifold to cantilever support the turbo. I'm planning on using 18 ga(.049) 321ss tubing.

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Mezzanine
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby Mezzanine » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:31 am

Looking good Dennis. Regarding supporting the turbo separate from the manifold, do you have any plans for mitigating pipe expansion? If there are enough bends in the header upstream of the turbo, you may be able to get away without any issues. While I don't have any direct pipe stress analysis experience, I worked on a lot of projects where that was a large component here at work and I've seen lots of things that worked and a few that didn't. Of course the 875 PSI superheated steam we were working with had some slightly more catastrophic failure consequences than an exhaust header, but that doesn't mean you want to redo this a few times.
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squaab99t
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby squaab99t » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:36 pm

Mezzanine wrote:Looking good Dennis. Regarding supporting the turbo separate from the manifold, do you have any plans for mitigating pipe expansion? If there are enough bends in the header upstream of the turbo, you may be able to get away without any issues. While I don't have any direct pipe stress analysis experience, I worked on a lot of projects where that was a large component here at work and I've seen lots of things that worked and a few that didn't. Of course the 875 PSI superheated steam we were working with had some slightly more catastrophic failure consequences than an exhaust header, but that doesn't mean you want to redo this a few times.


I will be utilizing a double slip merge collector. The primaries have a double wall that slips over the collector. This will allow for thermo expansion/contraction and seal when it is up to temperature. Bee hive springs and loops to keep the merge collector and the primaries tight when cold, but still allow growth.
Image
Image
Image

Super heated stream is nothing you want to fool with. A blown boiler will ruin your day and most likely your plant.

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Mezzanine
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby Mezzanine » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:44 am

squaab99t wrote:
I will be utilizing a double slip merge collector. The primaries have a double wall that slips over the collector. This will allow for thermo expansion/contraction and seal when it is up to temperature. Bee hive springs and loops to keep the merge collector and the primaries tight when cold, but still allow growth.


With the double slip collector, does one start with the male pipe inserted only 2/3 of the total slip length, allowing for expansion and contraction with a measure of error? Does Burns offer suggestions for the total insertion depth?

I've always wondered about just how much the double slip style connections actually seal... I mean they can't be truly zero-bubble connections. Again, not that it matters that much, but I'm just curious.
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99Super
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby 99Super » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:43 pm

Dennis,
Where did you get the flanges made?
I need a set in steel for a 2.1 N/A header project I'm working on.

John

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squaab99t
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby squaab99t » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:15 am

99Super wrote:Dennis,
Where did you get the flanges made?
I need a set in steel for a 2.1 N/A header project I'm working on.

John

Locally in Kent Wa. I drew them up on cad and saved as a .dfx file.
I did have a spare set made while they were doing a run for me and my V8 buddy.
One hole is misaligned on the 2-3 cylinder flange has to be reworked to a slot but no big drama since the other two holes locate it.
Pm if you are interested in buying the extra set. I also have a set in mild steel but sized for 1 3/4" dia tubing.
Dennis

Cark
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby Cark » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:20 pm

99Super wrote:Dennis,
Where did you get the flanges made?
I need a set in steel for a 2.1 N/A header project I'm working on.

John


Would one of these work?

http://www.genuinesaab.com/catalog/prod ... e28f225b41
03 9-5 Aero Wagon 5 spd M/T
85 900 turbo 5 spd 105k miles - Trionic 5ed in a day

iceman_ca
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby iceman_ca » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:37 pm

Thing you might share the dxf file? It would save me a lot of time. A friend own a water jet cutting company.

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squaab99t
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby squaab99t » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:08 am

Mezzanine wrote:
squaab99t wrote:
I will be utilizing a double slip merge collector. The primaries have a double wall that slips over the collector. This will allow for thermo expansion/contraction and seal when it is up to temperature. Bee hive springs and loops to keep the merge collector and the primaries tight when cold, but still allow growth.


With the double slip collector, does one start with the male pipe inserted only 2/3 of the total slip length, allowing for expansion and contraction with a measure of error? Does Burns offer suggestions for the total insertion depth?

I've always wondered about just how much the double slip style connections actually seal... I mean they can't be truly zero-bubble connections. Again, not that it matters that much, but I'm just curious.


Talking to Kevin and he says the slips get the full Monty. This way the end of the tube "seals" against the 45* as the tube transitions back to the nominal diameter.
She will leak some but relative to the dia entering the turbo a drop in the bucket.

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squaab99t
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby squaab99t » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:11 am

iceman_ca wrote:Thing you might share the dxf file? It would save me a lot of time. A friend own a water jet cutting company.

Share means barter... whatch you got?

iceman_ca
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby iceman_ca » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:05 pm

Not sure what I have that you might need..you are far more advanced then myself when it comes to Saab's and customization

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squaab99t
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby squaab99t » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:20 pm

iceman_ca wrote:Not sure what I have that you might need..you are far more advanced then myself when it comes to Saab's and customization

If you have friend that can do water jet maybe a friends and family deal on some jobs?

iceman_ca
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby iceman_ca » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:23 am

Yeah that is a possibility, but the shipping could get a little expensive from Toronto to the Washington.

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Jon1
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Re: Twin Scroll Turbo

Postby Jon1 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:49 pm

Dennis, any progress?
Jon
jon1
with many classic 900 turbos


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