PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

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BIRDIEMANGO
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PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby BIRDIEMANGO » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:31 am

MORNING CHAPS,

PLEASE FEEL FREE FOR A BIT OF DISCUSSION :dunno:

BIT OF A MAD IDEA HERE,AND THIS WILL TAKE YEARS OF RESEARCH,PLANNING,AND BUILDING/UPDATING THE SPEC OF A 99 TURBO.....

AS THE YEAR'S GO BY,LIFE DOESN'T GET MORE COMPLICATED,IT'S JUST THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF IT,BECOMES MORE COMPREHENSIVE,SO MAYBE IT JUST SEEM'S THAT WAY....?

BUT IF,AND WHEN I ACTUALLY GET THE CAR BUILT..... :crazy: (WHICH I ALREADY HAVE)

HAVE ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY SPECTATED OR COMPETED IN A SAAB,AT PIKE'S PEAK....?

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/spee ... martin/4od

SO THE QUESTION IS....

DO WE THINK IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO RUN A K-JET SYSTEM,WITH THE ELEVATION AND THINNER AIR......I REALLY DON'T WAN'T TO GO THE 'ECU' ROUTE,IF I DON'T HAVE TO...

DO RACECARS HAVE TO MEET STRICT EMISSION REGULATIONS FOR THIS EVENT?WHAT CLASS WOULD A 99 TURBO RUN IN...?IF I CHANGED THE ENGINE TO 16V TURBO 2.0 OR 2.3(PLENTY OF FABRICATION :thumbsup: ) WOULD THIS BE ALLOWED...?

WHILST OVER IN SWEDEN,WE HAVE SEEN IT IS POSSIBLE TO BUILD A 2.3 MOTOR INTO A 99/900,UTILISNG THE SAAB PARTS BIN......AND SOME VW PISTONS....AND RETAINING THE K-JET,BY WELDING INJECTOR PORTS INTO THE 16V MANIFOLD....

OF COURSE,FIRST I WOULD HAVE TO GET THERE...SO IDEAS ON SHIPPING....?


AND OF COURSE,LINKS TO COMPETING,ENTRY FEES,RULES AND REGULATIONS WOULD BE HELPFUL......


YEP,I KNOW THIS IS RIDICULOUS.......MAY NEVER HAPPEN,BUT THEN I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD ACTUALLY BE RACING A 1980 BLOMQVIST REPLICA 99 TURBO,ON THE ISLE OF MAN......WHERE SAAB'S FACTORY CAR,FAILED TO FINISH....

IDEA'S PLEASE...?

BIRDIE
CARLSSON TO BLOMQVIST......

''WHAT IS THIS TERRIBLE THING YOU HAVE TAUGHT YOURSELF,YOU MUST UNLEARN IT.....''

LEFT FOOT BRAKING

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Geoff
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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby Geoff » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:39 am

I think that's a great idea, it sounds like a hell of an adventure!

Most of the info you seek about the hillclimb itself is probably on the Pike's Peak Hillclimb website:
http://www.ppihc.com/
(go to the Competitors tab)

As far as what's allowed for engine modifications, in the US we don't seem to be as restricted as in Europe. We don't have to comply with 30 year old homologation, etc. The only time you see specific restrictions are for spec classes and there's no spec class for 99 Turbo hillclimb cars. ;)

I don't think you'd have a problem with K jet and a turbo. I've driven POS non-turbo 4-cylinder rental cars up around 11,000 feet and it was quite slow but a turbo would have encouraged things along nicely. You could use the trip as an excuse to upgrade to more power, but if it were me I'd probably just keep things simple.

If you're not driving the car on the road there typically aren't emissions regulations. Most states don't have emissions requirements for older cars either (cars must comply with the laws of the state in which it is registered) so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Sometimes new cars come to the US on a test basis which don't meet federal regulations but they're granted a temporary pass (up to 1 year I think) at which point they have to leave the country (or be permanently removed from the road).

A few things I saw when I briefly scrolled through the regulations is that you'll need a roll cage and a fire system. I think you probably don't have either of those(?).

It looks like the entry fee for 2014 was $1400.

You could probably ship the car in a container, either to the east coast or maybe you could get it a little closer (Huston?). I'd imagine if you tried to ship it to the west coast it would be pretty expensive. You might be able to load it up with tires, camping gear, spares, etc. and drive it to Colorado. It might be similar to when you drove it to Sweden, just a bit longer on the ocean-crossing ;) You could also rent a truck and a trailer from somewhere like Uhaul or Penske but I imagine that would contribute significantly to your budget. You could probably drive it one-way and then tow back if you needed - I've done that for rallies before because it was comforting knowing that I had a way to get the car back no matter what happened.

I haven't been to Pike's Peak but I hear the road is actually pretty wide and gradual (at least compared to what we see in New England). Just a bit higher though.
The kind of dirty that doesn't wash off :eyebrows:

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby SwedeSport » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:34 pm

If that bearded knucklehead from Gas Monkey Garage can do it, I would expect you could too...

GO FOR IT!
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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby Crazyswede » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:58 pm

"Devil's Playground": The Jeremy Foley 2012 Pikes…: http://youtu.be/ojO9IxCXxeMe sure to put a proper roll cage in the car
I am the 73%

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby BIRDIEMANGO » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm

THANKS FOR SOME INPUT......

THE 8V B20 ENGINE IN THE 99T CURRENTLY PUTS OUT 201 LB/FT TORQUE,WHICH IS EQUIVALENT,TO THE 16V TURBO IN ROAD GOING 900/9000 T16 UK SPEC.

A 'BOLT-ON' TUNING KIT 'PLUG&PLAY' CONSISTING OF UPRATED FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR,RED BOX APC,AND OVERBOOST CUT OUT SWITCH WAS AVAILABLE HERE, TO TAKE THE 1989 9000T16 FROM 175BHP UP TO 204BHP,201 LB/FT TORQUE UP TO 214 LB/FT....

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE,THE TORQUE FIGURES FROM A 'MONGREL ' 2.3 TURBO MOTOR......SHOEHORNED INTO A 99 ENGINE BAY
Last edited by BIRDIEMANGO on Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
CARLSSON TO BLOMQVIST......

''WHAT IS THIS TERRIBLE THING YOU HAVE TAUGHT YOURSELF,YOU MUST UNLEARN IT.....''

LEFT FOOT BRAKING

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby Crazyswede » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:08 pm

Do you have a big box 4 speed on hand? If not we have heard mention of a special group a 5 speed that might be a wise investment for a monster motor
I am the 73%

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby BIRDIEMANGO » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:14 am

THE TRANSMISSION WOULD BE THE BIGGEST EXPENSE.... :bawl:

2.3 MOTOR IS CONSTRUCTED USING 2.1 BLOCK,AND I THINK 2.3 RODS WHICH ARE MACHINED ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BIG END'S A LITTLE,ALONG WITH THE INTERNAL'S OF THE 2.1 BLOCK TO ALLOW IT TO SWING IN THE 99 SUMP......

PLENTY OF GEARBOXES HERE,JUST NOT COMPETITION ONE'S.... :dunno:


MAKES ME WONDER WHAT THE AVERAGE SPEED UP THE MOUNTAIN,WOULD BE.....MAYBE 50-60 MPH?
CARLSSON TO BLOMQVIST......

''WHAT IS THIS TERRIBLE THING YOU HAVE TAUGHT YOURSELF,YOU MUST UNLEARN IT.....''

LEFT FOOT BRAKING

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby 99Super » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:29 pm

I've run my 78 99T BSI20 w/CIS at 11,000+ ft in Colorado and had no problems beyond not having as much boost as I wanted.
I've also run the car at hillclimbs at 8,000 ft using a 2.0 16VT with CIS (using BMW injectors) without issue, but again more power would have been nice. I think I topped out around 105 on the finish straight. I just need a better turbo. So, if you have a strong, reliable, system work from there and think about engines/transmission last.
That said, I love my 2.0/2.1 w/T5.

16VT W/ CIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WcAmB_36yk

Good Luck! I'm not too far away so, if this happens, I can can crew if you need.

John

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby BIRDIEMANGO » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:12 am

HELLO JOHN,THANKS FOR THAT.....

http://sundayafternoonclub.blogs.topgea ... ikes-peak/

AND MAYBE,SOME TIME SPENT HERE.....

http://www.travel.fi/int/hobbies/vatane ... tanen.html

I LIKE SALMON...

:thumbsup: :crazy:
CARLSSON TO BLOMQVIST......

''WHAT IS THIS TERRIBLE THING YOU HAVE TAUGHT YOURSELF,YOU MUST UNLEARN IT.....''

LEFT FOOT BRAKING

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby BIRDIEMANGO » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:00 am

HMMM, ANOTHER DORMANT PROJECT OF LATE....?

JUST ACQUIRED THE FINAL PIECE OF THE JIGSAW.....

FRONT LOWER VALANCE/ENGINE BAY FLOOR !

I NOW HAVE ALL THE PANELS,TO REPAIR/BUILD THIS CAR... :thumbsup:

http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic. ... +FLEW+OVER

THIS IS GOING TO TAKE AT LEAST 5 YEARS TO BUILD,I WOULD BE OVER 50, WHEN IT'S COMPLETE.....

NOT SURE, I WAN'T TO START THIS PROJECT....... :crazy:
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CARLSSON TO BLOMQVIST......

''WHAT IS THIS TERRIBLE THING YOU HAVE TAUGHT YOURSELF,YOU MUST UNLEARN IT.....''

LEFT FOOT BRAKING

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby BIRDIEMANGO » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:27 am

I GOT THE WINDSCREEN SCUTTLE PANEL,FROM THE 'SAAB MUSEUM' PARTS SALE A FEW YEAR'S BACK, WHEN I MET A FEW OF YOU THERE,IN TROLLHATTAN....?

AND SOMEBODY LEFT ME A 'NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT' T-SHIRT......ON THE BONNET? :thumbsup:

A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE,LET ME 'CUT OFF' THE OFFSIDE REAR QUARTER PANEL,FROM A 900 HE WAS BREAKING......

AND I HAVE COLLECTED,DOOR'S WING'S, BONNET AND TAILGATE......OVER THE PAST 3-4 YEARS ;)
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CARLSSON TO BLOMQVIST......

''WHAT IS THIS TERRIBLE THING YOU HAVE TAUGHT YOURSELF,YOU MUST UNLEARN IT.....''

LEFT FOOT BRAKING

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby BIRDIEMANGO » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:35 am

MORNING CHAPS,


JUST TAKEN DELIVERY OF A 1976 99 COMBI-COUPE THAT HAS BEEN DRY STORED FOR A VERY LONG TIME....NO SUNROOF!!!


:thumbsup:

LOOKS LIKE WE ARE ,GOOD TO GO ON THIS ONE..... :crazy:

http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic. ... 5&t=173412
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CARLSSON TO BLOMQVIST......

''WHAT IS THIS TERRIBLE THING YOU HAVE TAUGHT YOURSELF,YOU MUST UNLEARN IT.....''

LEFT FOOT BRAKING

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby squaab99t » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:31 pm

Oh boy. Where do you put all these cars?

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby BIRDIEMANGO » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:25 am

HELLO SQUAAB 99T,


IN THE GARDEN....... :yay: :-O

OK CHAPS,

HERE IS A QUESTION,OR RATHER MANY...? TO DRAW ON EXPERIENCE...?

EVERY 'PROJECT' HAS GOT TO START SOMEWHERE....THE INITIAL ENGINE DEVELOPMENT,I AM GOING TO EXPERIMENT WITH 99 TURBO 7.2 TO 1 PISTONS,IN A B202 16V TURBO, LIKELY WITH K-JET.....TO TRY AND RUN MORE BOOST.
OF COURSE,THERE AIN'T MUCH POINT IN RUNNING MORE BOOST,WITHOUT AIDING FLOW....SO THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE TO SORT.

AND WE KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE,THE B202 IS NOT VERY GOOD AT FLOWING,COMPARED TO T5 HEAD...?


HAS ANYBODY TRIED RUNNING 99T PISTONS IN A B202 16V TURBO MOTOR.......?

FROM MEMORY(WITHOUT DIGGING OUT THE ORIGINAL SAAB SPEC) DOES THE B202 16V TURBO MOTOR RUN AT ABOUT 9.5 TO 1....?

NOW,MOVING ON SLIGHTLY.....

THE ULTIMATE ENGINE IS GOING TO BE USING THE T5 HEAD....OF WHICH,I HAVE ACQUIRED ONE FOR MEASURING THE BLOCK/HEAD ASSEMBLY IN-CAR(BONNET CLEARANCE ETC...) ALONG WITH A CUT-WELDED 2.1 INLET 'PORTED' MANIFOLD TO MATCH...

BUT I INTEND USING THE MACHINED 2.3 CRANK,IN THE B202 BLOCK TO SWING IN THE TRANSMISSION,AND ULTIMATELY GIVE US A LARGER CAPACITY (2.3/2.5 L)

A VERY KNOWLEDGABLE CHAP OVER HERE,HAS LEANT ME THE NECCESSARY,TO DO A 'MOCK-UP' BUILD....
A RATHER ACCOMPLISHED SAAB TURBO 'GURU'....

I HAVE BEEN INGESTING IN GREAT DETAIL,ALL I CAN READ, ABOUT THE VARIOUS MIX&MATCH COMPONENTS......

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=915

NOW,AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO WELDING UP THE T5 HEAD,A 'DECOMPRESSION' PLATE WAS USED ON THE ABOVE SET-UP,MACHINED BY....

http://www.ferriday.co.uk/decompression-plates/

THIS HAS THE 'ADDED' BENEFIT,OF PROVIDING A DROP IN COMPRESSION RATIO......AND FILLING IN THE 'MISSING' PORTION OF THE HEAD/BLOCK.......WITH B202/T5 HEAD :thumbsup: AND WE KNOW,THAT RUNNING 2.2 BAR BOOST WITH THE DECOMPRESSION PLATE, RETAINED ENGINE RELIABILITY.....

I SUPPOSE THE QUESTION I AM TRYING TO ASK HERE....?(AND LET'S FORGET THE LONG ARGUED TRANSMISSION ISSUE FOR NOW,AS I RECKON AN ABOUT 350 LB/FT TORQUE)

HAS ANYBODY TRIED TO BUILD A MONSTER 2.3/2.5 TURBOCHARGED 16V MOTOR.....?I WAN'T AN EVEN SPREAD OF TORQUE,WHICH START'S VERY LOW DOWN.........NOT MAX HP.......

THIS AIN'T NO 'CHEQUE BOOK' BUILD MIND,SAAB 'PARTS' BIN ONLY.....


'FLAMESUIT' AT THE READY.... :yay:
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CARLSSON TO BLOMQVIST......

''WHAT IS THIS TERRIBLE THING YOU HAVE TAUGHT YOURSELF,YOU MUST UNLEARN IT.....''

LEFT FOOT BRAKING

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Re: PIKES PEAK IN A 99 TURBO......?

Postby 99Super » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:24 am

Birdie,

My 99 uses a B202 w/ the 8.5:1 8V 900 turbo pistons. Same as the 99T pistons, but slightly higher comp. When I first built the engine, I ran it on CIS, but could only run about 1 bar boost, due more to ignition issues than fuel. Now, w/T5 I run a reliable 1.5 bar.

I'm running a 2.3/2.1 head w/ the 2.1 intake manifold. All easily acquired parts w/ no modifications required to fit. Perhaps some minor porting/valve work would be easier/cheaper than the T5 head? I'm running about 220 hp as-is, and could easily go more, but I really don't want to break transmissions.

Maybe your desire for a flatter torque curve could addressed at the turbo. That's the direction I'm headed next.

John


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