'90 Vert T5 Swap

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hutch
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby hutch » Sat May 28, 2016 2:20 pm

I'm gonna keep bumping this thread until I bore people enough to post their own :lol:

Anyway, making some progress on the battery. I was getting annoyed as I hadn't heard a single thing about the battery hold down I ordered and then one day it just showed up. So I stopped by the local battery shop and got some longer cable and an some accessories to make up the positive cable, I'm still working through a few routing options but it will take all of 5 minutes to finish.

I had originally thought I'd try to mount the hold down to the stock tray but the battery was still too close for comfort so I just mounted it directly to the body. I have about 6" clearance to the elbow and 3" to the wastegate, I have no clue if that is enough or not so I may still put some sort of heat shield material on the battery itself for protection. I went ahead and sprayed the hold down with some paint just so it wouldn't rust and did some spare valve covers with the remaining can as I had been meaning to do that for a while.
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I forgot to take pics but I took the DP back out and tightened up the mid pipe and put on the exhaust hanger and then get the cat installed. I'm going to drop by a local exhaust shop next week and get a v band put on a length of pipe I have and then connect it to the rest of the exhaust. I know some people talk about T5'ing their car in a day but I'm happy with my multi-month adventure since I'd like to think I didn't cut any corners :crazy: :lol:

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squaab99t
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby squaab99t » Sat May 28, 2016 3:28 pm

hutch wrote:I'm gonna keep bumping this thread until I bore people enough to post their own :lol:

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I know some people talk about T5'ing their car in a day but I'm happy with my multi-month adventure since I'd like to think I didn't cut any corners :crazy: :lol:

T5 in a day is BS in my opinion. I guess one could do it and get some bragging right, but why? I'd rather savor a pint of good beer than chug 3 can of Miller Lite.
Mounting it down low is the money to get air flow between the two. Remember heat also transfer via radiation, so a heat shield is still in order as it travels by line of sight. Best if you can get something shiny silver metal sandwiching an insulation.
Can you get the pos post on the right side? This way the leads don't cross.

I'd also switch the O2 sensor. It is said the sensor will last long being not so close to the heat. I put a thermocouple at the first bung.

Keep it going.

hutch
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby hutch » Sat May 28, 2016 5:55 pm

Yeah I'm definitely happy having it down low, the downside is that I had envisioned a sort of upside down U-shaped heat shield that could have attached to the stock battery tray that had some of your nice lava mat stuff and would have a layer of air between the shield and the battery to hopefully keep it cooler.

Now theres not really anywhere to grab onto to mount something like that and I'm sort of facing the same problem with the cables, the mount is right up against where the positive cable mounts to the frame rail so it kind of has to go down and loop back up to attach. I had thought about flipping the battery, and still may as I think the negative cable would still fit, but I was initially thinking I'd like to keep them away from the exhaust and it'd be easier to mount the heatshield away from the terminals. As you are well aware there are always compromises and changes to these sorts of projects.

And thanks for pointing out the O2 sensor, I had been curious if you had the stock O2 and then a wideband downstream but that makes much more sense. I ordered a SS plug as the chrome plated one I originally bought would bug the hell out of me so I will switch those around as soon as it arrives.

hutch
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby hutch » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:27 pm

I was afraid my n00b updates killed off Saabrally :lol:

Anyway, I made a decent amount of progress this past weekend, I am picking up the exhaust tomorrow then should hopefully fire it up this weekend after I steal some parts from the SPG until I can take a trip to see Gary. I also threw on the SPG kit from my old SPG, I haven't done the rears yet and to be honest a non-Saab person would never know the difference but it will bug me enough to eventually mount them. But I'm planning to take this car to the beach in a few weeks so I just wanted to get it on and running.

Here is the exhaust shield, I went through a few cardboard designs but as I mentioned there weren't a lot of great attachment points so I settled on this design. I liked this design because it covered all of the exhaust and the battery and allows for airflow over the battery. There is the potential to run into some interference with the wastegate actuator but I think it should be OK. I will probably make a version 2.0 as I am worried about fatigue in the arm where it attaches to the turbo from the engine moving, I tried to beef it up and I figure there should be enough flex in the material that it would be OK but I may go back and redo it at some point.

I have faith in JB weld (the area is sandwich'ed on both sides with scraps of the steel I used) but I realize now that I should have just got a 90 degree piece of steel or something as it would be a little more sturdy
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This side attaches where some A/C component was originally
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This side is on one of the turbo studs
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You can sort of see that there should still be some airflow over the battery here
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I was also worried about slicing my hand on the edges, even with the cool lava mat material on both sides, so I put some silicone vacuum hose on the edges but it was very messy with the gasket material I used. On V2.0 I'll probably skip it or put it on before I put the lava mat on.

You can also spot the new SS O2 sensor plug, not only is it much smaller profile but it wouldn't annoy me like the chrome one I had in there...

hutch
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby hutch » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:51 pm

So I finally got the exhaust buttoned up and it runs!... sort of.

I stole the IC pipe with the boss for the IAT and the MAP sensor from my SPG and decided to see if it would fire up, only to quickly find I had one of the fuel pump triggers in the wrong location. Checked with my SPG and got that sorted then it started no problem. However it sounds like its only firing on 3 cylinders even though the idle is rock solid (which I've been fighting with on my SPG forever) so I'm hoping I just need to play with the timing on the CPS kit. Other than I can't think of too many other reasons why it would happen, maybe a dirty injector that needs some time to clean itself? Either way I'll mess around with it some more tomorrow but I'm just thankful I connected the battery up and it hasn't burned to ground yet so my soldering must not be too bad :lol:

I forgot to take a picture earlier of the cool v band cat I have, I run antique plates so no need for emissions testing but my cat-less SPG sort of stinks at stop lights and I figured that would be even worse in a vert (not to mention the environment and all that good stuff...). I always hated the way the Skandix tail pipes stuck out so I threw on a different tailpipe but forgot to take pics of that. Even on 3 cylinders the exhaust has a nice burble to it still and seems to be well sealed up.
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And just for my own amusement here is the engine bay after tidying things up with the T5 install:
:thumbsup:
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:thumbsdown:
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squaab99t
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby squaab99t » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:58 pm

Dude, that looks awesome. Good looking blast shield. Did you pull the injector connector to pin point the offending cylinder. I had the 3 cylinder issue the other day. Did the pull connector and listened for change. Also used my IR thermometer on the header and found the cold primary. Found pin push back on the injector connector.
I don't think you are killing Saab rally, but in fact performing CPR.

hutch
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby hutch » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:40 pm

Ha well killing saabrally was a joke about the server issues last week, but thanks!

I did the old lightly whack each injector with the butt of a screwdriver to see if it was something intermittent but didn't think to pull off the connectors. I feel like an old man talking about 'back in my day' with old technology, but it really just feels like when I did a HG on my first 900 and had to set the timing of the distributor from scratch and it was way off. It feels like all cylinders are firing, just way too early/late and its struggling to run properly.

With owning Trionic cars I'll have to see if I still even have a timing light anymore, but I'm cautiously optimistic that if I can get that dialed in it will cure the problem.

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squaab99t
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby squaab99t » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:50 pm

Do do a quick check that the 20th tooth post the -2 is at the sensor when the engine is at TDC. It is possible to put the hub on the pulley 120* off.

Do you recall the thread where I describe how to get a pulse off cylinder 1 with a DIC and timing light?

hutch
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby hutch » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:18 pm

squaab99t wrote:Do do a quick check that the 20th tooth post the -2 is at the sensor when the engine is at TDC. It is possible to put the hub on the pulley 120* off.

Do you recall the thread where I describe how to get a pulse off cylinder 1 with a DIC and timing light?
Yup I lined up the 20th tooth under the CPS as best I could during the install to at least get a baseline but I still need to get the timing light on it. And yes I did see your helpful post about getting the pulse with the timing light, I will have to rig something up like that to get it dialed in. I remembered I loaned out my Combi adaptor so I won't be able to do live reading but I believe I have figured out the problem...

I was a little bummed to find out that the CPS was well aligned as that would have been a nice easy fix, but no dice. Then I tried your suggestion of pulling the injector connectors and that seemed to indicate that it was cylinder #3 that was the culprit. Checked continuity at the ECU and everything seemed OK so I started it up again and let it idle while being a little more aggressive with tapping it and suddenly the idle sounded much healthier and it appears to be working correctly now. So I still need to take it for a spin but I think I've at least gotten it in the ballpark and just have the fine tuning to do.

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squaab99t
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby squaab99t » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:21 pm

Excellent, :yay:
Sometimes a bigger hammer, well placed, will do the trick.

hutch
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby hutch » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:44 pm

Haha yeah theres nothing a good hammer can't fix :lol:

I took it for a brief spin tonight and it seems to run well, it needs some adaptation as the idle would dip a bit in between shifts and there was a little lifter tick but I assume thats because it hasn't been driven in 6 months. I didn't really get into it much but its very smooth and has a lot more low end pull with T5 controlling things.

All together though I'm very happy to have it up and running, theres nothing quite like driving a vert at dusk :yay:

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Geoff
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby Geoff » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:02 am

The experience you had with it sounding like it was running on 3 cylinders also could have been a sticky lifter. I've had cars run crappy after sitting for a few months and then when I was tinkering around trying to find the problem it suddenly resolved itself. When that happens I usually pull the valve cover and check the lifters - or just wait and see if it clears up. ;)
The kind of dirty that doesn't wash off :eyebrows:

hutch
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby hutch » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:37 am

Sounds like it definitely could have been a sticky lifter since it was noisy after it finally started, so it may have just been a coincidence of my wonderful hammer technique :P

Anyway so I've put 50 or so miles on the car just driving around a bit and it has a few issues that I'd like to get sorted. I'm getting a steady CEL light and reading the flashes it tells me its for the IAT and the O2 sensor, the IAT seems a little odd so I'll check the wiring on that and maybe swap in another one from the bag of T5 sensors I have. The O2 sensor could easily be the wiring changes I made since I used a T5 sensor and may have gotten the pins switched up in the connector, but who knows. There is also a bit of a dead spot sometimes pulling out in 1st gear as I first let the clutch out, hopefully a result of one of those issues but it may need some fine tuning as the T25 file I loaded is likely very different than the T3 I have.

I also snapped a quick pic to show the SPG kit, as I said I doubt a non-Saab person would realize the rear panels aren't 'correct' but I'd rather just drive it for a bit then dig into that somewhere down the road (no, I didn't realize I almost drove through the parking spot :lol:)
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Crazyswede
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby Crazyswede » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:43 pm

Nice Rose Quartz convertible...best color
I am the 73%

hutch
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Re: '90 Vert T5 Swap

Postby hutch » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:03 pm

Err uhh might want to check the RGB balance on the ol' monitor :lol: Though I'm certainly a big fan of Rose Quartz, I'll bet that would look great on a vert...

Briefly checked things tonight, the IAT was nice and simple as one of the terminals had gotten pulled out, I think I may add 3 or 4 inches to the lead as its a really tight fit and I'd hate for it to happen again in the middle of driving down to the beach next week.

The O2 sensor has me a little confused, even after making this harness I fully admit to being confused how the relay system works to turn the O2 sensor on with T5. I thought pin 1 of the O2 sensor was supposed to get 12v with the fuel pump but it seems to be going to ground according to my multimeter, though maybe that is something to do with the ECU warm up procedure :dunno: Hopefully I can dig into it a bit further and its something simple like the car is looking for the rear O2 sensor and not seeing anything...


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