snow tires

[Luke]

I had a weird experience last night. I went to do a final shakedown of the rally car before sandblast. Theres about 6 inches of DENSE snow (like cement) laying around. So I blast off the driveway into the field and to my suprise I start inching along in the thick snow, barely able to move. This is with very knobby rally tires and an LSD. I was suprised so I wanted to see how another car would fair. So I take my '77 99 nicknamed the troll-turd (its poop brown) fitted with some Hakka's with lots of sipes ( i forget exactly which ones they are but they are not super knobby like my old 09's) out and blast around with no issues. I had heard that rally tires suck in the snow but I didnt realize they were THAT bad.

[max]

It's ok, this morning I took the mini to an interview, and could barely make it out of my parking spot, and nearly got stuck in the end of the driveway with all the snow pileup. Had to rock it out. Almost slid completely past the entrance to the company I was interviewing at.

Note to self: don't take the car out in the snow with Hankook Ventus Sports on.

[allessence]

I've been using the Pacemark Snowtrakkers M/2, and they pull pretty good at lower speeds but once the power comes on and speeds (45-70) they seem to lose some of there stick-two-it-ivness. It could be This is there 1st real year on the car (2 winter seasons) and there getting pretty bald.

Anyhow, other tire choices would be nice. I can't afford the Happa's

I paid 363.50 for 4 of the Pacemark with Stud's 2 year ago. I only need 2 to replace the fronts.

Thanks J

[Crazyswede]

The full price on a set of Hakka Q2's with studs is about $450, without studs they are about $400 iirc. My experience is that I slip around a bunch when I am first starting out but once I am moving the hakka's are unstoppable. I tend to use the turbo power in the higher gears a lot in the snow as the tires have less torque going to them and they break traction less....Starting out on slight grade on packed snow or ice is tricky in first...sometimes its better to lug second.

[allessence]

Okay, Last week the trans finially went in the 91 SPG so the car needed a trans swap (had a rebuilt 88 on shelf, will rebuild the 91 later) and a steering rack swap as well ( bad internals would clunk/bind slightly if rocking the steering wheel) Had the a rebuilt rack on the shelf since this past fall.

So, the end of last week I pulled the engine/trans combo and cleaned all the oil gunk from the skid pan and other parts. and put in the steering rack. Did the front and rear oil seals just because. Everything went back together like a (hold on) well almost without a hitch. Had someone push down on the clutch peddle to get out the saab clutch tool and the slave cylinder extruded and oring. (had a new one on the self). All in all everything went as expected. Un heated garage but better than outside.

Oops. Tires. Okay, so I searched, and looked at just about every tire out there that was a winter studdable (even Ice racing tires). I ended up with Hankook Ipike w409's http://www.hankooktireusa.com/product/tire_detail.asp?pid=84
Large view http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?sw=true&cs=195&pc=11224&rd=15&ar=55 with studs in a 195/60-15 to match the size on the rears. It looks like a Hakka knock off. I figured if they don't pull that good I would just put the rear pacemarks on the front and switch these new ones to the rears. But I have to say that overall (except high speed paved corners) they are decent in the snow and Ice. I went out trying to find ice and snow covered areas with hills and turns and for the most part performed all right. Needless to say winter is just about over but I figured I could afford them now. 49 each + 7.50 each studs, and 9.95 mount and balance 141.81 was the total, oh, and did I mention a free computerized alignment. Now they may not be as good as Hakka's but at less then half the cost. I guess they will be fine for the rest of the winter.

[Jordan]

well it is march 8th... you're in MA? Not that you won't need them next year.. but unless you're on slicks or your tires totally suck you might be ok for the rest of winter. That way you can spend your money on some auto-x tires

[allessence]

The tires on the front were bald. I thought for sure I was going to fail safety inspection with them last month but I promised the gentlemen I was going to get new tires.

I figured that for the cost of the tires vs the cost of just a front end alignment, I'd be better off with the tires and the free alignment. It was like getting one tire for free.

What is the recommend Auto X tire?

[Jordan]

Well the proven bang-for-buck (although less so now) seem to be the Kumho MX (or 712 for everyday driving) or Falken Azenis. I found them difficult to find in the size I want so I think I'm going to venture into new territory with Hankook Ventus Rs2 Z212 http://www.hankooktireusa.com/product/tire_detail.asp?pid=13

[allessence]

Jordan, What size are you looking to run?

I have the Kumho 712s on my car but ended up going to the 16" rims for summer. I'm running General Acclaim UHP's for summers.

What should I be looking for in the tire? Some say a low tread wear #, but it seems that some of the tires that are supposed to be sticky have a decent Tread wear #

The General Acclaim UHP's are 380 tread wear, Traction AA, temp A
http://www.generaltire.com/generator/www/us/en/generaltire/automobile/themes/pc_tyres/performance/exclaim_uhp/master_en.html

Bought from Town fair tire last summer. They stick pretty good once they get hot enough.

[Jordan]

For my 99 I want to run 195/55(or 50)/15.. the widest wheels I have are only 5.5in. 205s stick out too much and always seem too mushy. Currently I have worn out 712s at 205/50/15 mounted on SPG wheels. on my 90 SPG I have Aero rims mounted which are 6.5in (IIRC) and 205s fit great on them. How much are the general tires... they look similar to the Kumho 712s in specs at least. Check tirerack for review/ratings.

[matt]

You can fit a 225-50-16's on aero rims (at least on my 9000), I was running those before my trans died (again) they did rub in the back when loaded down. IIRC 225 was the biggest size that would fit on those wheels which I'm pretty sure are 6.5 inches wide.

[Jordan]

I don't think 225s will fit on a 900, and I don't know if you would even want them too. If I recall 205s rubbed a bit in the rears anyway. If you do an axle relocation, or have a wheel that doesnt have such a big offset as the aero wheel it might work, I'm not sure.

[Hans]

Matt -- Did you run 225s on Aeros on a 900? I've never heard of this. I had bad rubbing with 205/55; 205/50-16 works pretty well. BTW, they are in fact 6.5-inches wide, with an offset of 27mm. They stick out almost exactly an inch more than stock but the inside is the same as a stock 900 40-offset rim.

The Kumho 712 has been replaced by the SPT, though I believe the 712 is still available. The SPT is another hi-po tire with a low price-point like the 712. They are getting decent reviews, though they are not an all-out performance tire because the treadwear rating is fairly good. Wet performance is said to be especially good for a tire in its performance segment, and while it's not going to be a hot autocross tire, there have been a few national-level autocross events won on them in *cold, wet* conditions. At a recent local autocross, also in cold/wet, I saw them perform quite well.

allessence -- if you want sticky tires on 16s, then look into a 215/45-16 Falken Azenis. Or, you can trade some stick for a bit better wet performance and go with the Hankook RS2. You will take a hit in ride comfort with the Azenis -- they have very stiff sidewalls.

0.02

[matt]

it was on my 9000 aero with super aero wheels.

[allessence]

When I bought the Generals last year they were 54.00 each. This year they are 64 each.
Very reasonable for a good summer tire. I had 205/55-16's on the Spg but the height was to much and ended up getting 205/50-16's which is the recommend size.

I find the TireRack surveys are for the most part done by regular people driving in a regular manner. The Generals Acclaim uhps are supposed to be great in the wet. My old Goodyear aqua 2's M/S were better. But of course that car didn't have nearly the power this one has.

I have some rust on the stock steel wheel arches, so at some point plan to cut out the fenders and create fiberglass Modifed SPG ground effects for the front before tire, arch, and behind tire. Both front and rear.

I figure this will allow a larger diameter (17-18")/wider rim (8-10") with greater offset with no rubbing though it seems the 15" is the tire of choice for Rally or high speed events. Maybe I'll make 2 different sets.

Of course this all depends on availible time and resources.