Replace Water Pump - Still Leaks

[DrewP]

I'm kicking myself for not posting this this morning after I finished the job, since a lot of people will miss the post now.

'78 EMS came into the shop, owner had a new in the bag Saab water pump kit, with the impeller and drive shaft to replace his ailing one. He sometimes had leaks out the weep hole, and there is some water in the oil, nice and creamy. Compression checked out fine, so I went ahead with the water pump install.

Have factory press and arbor tool sets here at the shop.

I pressed the bottom support bearing assembled to the shaft all the way down home, put on middle water/shaft seal, pressed upper water seal down tight, then pressed on impeller till it felt like it was nice and down home (it's a type III kit, with no nut or bolt holding the impeller on.)

I now have a very steady stream of water out the weep hole even just when I fill the system, and when the engine is running.

Is there a break-in period for the upper graphite seal to start sealing?

Did I press the water seal down too hard?

Did I not get the impeller pressed all the way down?

I am staying after hours tonight to rip it back apart and hope I don't destroy all the seals in the process, since I screwed up, and customer provided a very expensive set of parts, he wanted to go this route rather than converting to the electric.

Any ideas what I did?

Best,
Drew

[DrewP]

Fixed!

Old (guy bought it years ago) carbon graphite upper water seal shattered inside the block when I pressed the impeller on.

Tore it back down, replaced with a later style rubberized seal I got from a Triumph supply shop. Works like a charm.

Best,
Drew

[squaab99t]

Fixed!

Old (guy bought it years ago) carbon graphite upper water seal shattered inside the block when I pressed the impeller on.

Tore it back down, replaced with a later style rubberized seal I got from a Triumph supply shop. Works like a charm.

Best,
Drew

Excellent. I am dreading the day I have to replace mine. can you post the p/n of the triumph seal?
Thanks

[SaabsBreakDown]

I would like to say just as a piece of general information that after replacing a B-motor water pump seal it is normal to have some leaking out the weep hole for a while (up to a couple days of normal driving) after seal replacement.

The b-motor water pump rebuild kit is still available from Elk parts. I think its like $60 shipped. Townsend imports has a scan of the service literature pertaining to this procedure posted online.

[Geoff]

Another thing is that you don't need to press the impeller on as far as it will go, only far enough so that it doesn't contact the water pump cover when you put it on. You can check the height by smearing some grease on the underside of the pump cover and then put it on and off after each successive time you press the impeller down a little further. The close proximity of the impeller to the cover will give you a more efficient pump.

I would have re-used the existing pump shaft but that's me. If he had a NOS factory kit it should be good.

I've sourced all the rebuild parts from an industrial supply company. I didn't source the O-rings for the earlier pumps because I don't have one of those, but that should be pretty easy. After I rebuild the pump (and make sure everything works) I'll take some photos and post the part numbers. It was significantly cheaper than $60.

[SaabsBreakDown]

Another thing is that you don't need to press the impeller on as far as it will go, only far enough so that it doesn't contact the water pump cover when you put it on. You can check the height by smearing some grease on the underside of the pump cover and then put it on and off after each successive time you press the impeller down a little further. The close proximity of the impeller to the cover will give you a more efficient pump.

I would have re-used the existing pump shaft but that's me. If he had a NOS factory kit it should be good.

I've sourced all the rebuild parts from an industrial supply company. I didn't source the O-rings for the earlier pumps because I don't have one of those, but that should be pretty easy. After I rebuild the pump (and make sure everything works) I'll take some photos and post the part numbers. It was significantly cheaper than $60.

Good idea to check how far you have the impeller down. I just pressed mine on with a left hand thread nut to the torque specified in the literature on townsend's site, and then removed the nut. (NOTE: some cheap click style torque wrenches don't work backwards).

It would be good to have your part numbers Geoff, especially to avoid the problem encountered here.. a customer with a cache of decades old rebuild parts. Buying new parts could save you a lot of time, money and headache in the end, and waiting for shipments from europe is no fun no matter what your situation. Between the parts you use and this seal Drew got from the triumph guy, we should all be in pretty good shape. Might even be good to post the info on Saabnet once all the information is sorted.

[Geoff]

Once I confirm that everything works I'll put the info up on a number of websites, write an installation guide (to give people confidence that these waterpumps CAN be fixed and you don't necessarily need to go with electric), and probably submit that to the Vintage SAAB Club newsletter too.

[DrewP]

That was exactly the problem, the impeller didn't need to go down all the way the second time.

Second one I only brought down enough to clear, works like a charm.

I'll let you know in 22 years how that replacement one held up, because that's how long the one in this guy's engine lasted since the last time he had it changed (freakin' original owners and their book-keeping.... )

Best,
Drew

[Crazyswede]

as long as the gear meshing doesn't get F'd up they should last a long time. Mine had stripped gears on the pump and layshaft...hence my choice to go the electric pump route.

[SaabsBreakDown]

as long as the gear meshing doesn't get F'd up they should last a long time. Mine had stripped gears on the pump and layshaft...hence my choice to go the electric pump route.

Funny, I didn't even think to install an electric one. Same happened to me on my old spring green hatch, and I just replaced the engine. I think I freed up a bit more shelf space than you, though!

[airsweden]

That sounds like how I used to approach many repairs. I've swapped out whole engines because of a leaky head gasket, broken valve guide or bad "B" water pump... the list goes on. My tactics are starting to change now that the flow of parts cars is down to a trickle.

[SaabsBreakDown]

That sounds like how I used to approach many repairs. I've swapped out whole engines because of a leaky head gasket, broken valve guide or bad "B" water pump... the list goes on. My tactics are starting to change now that the flow of parts cars is down to a trickle.

The best thing about an engine swap is its a finite amount of time with no surprises.