Hello!

[DeLorean]

hmm, just realized I did not introduce myself here yet. A lot of you probably know me from some of the other saab forums and the saab events. I have a pretty generic looking Grey 1988 SPG, but it has a few go fast bits. Obviously just a road car, but a fun one! last dyno with the clutch slipping it made over 220 HP and 300 lb/ft torque with a stock T3 turbo. Megasquirt and proper fueling sure does help these little 2.0's run better The car (mine is in the back)-


here I am during one of it's many trans transplants... this was I think #3 or something since I had the car, about 2 years ago.


Oh, I also have a 9-5 (currently broken) but I have a few things to get it going again, this will be my daily driver in the next few weeks.

The car-

a proper engine-

one of the little upgrades it's getting along the way-


and my co-conspirator and I have been toying with rallying this 99 turbo for about a year now. --



The picture is a little deceptive and was taken about 3 years ago, it is not in quite as good condition as it looks there. While the frame is very solid and straight, it does have some body rust. Mostly sheet metal though, around both rear wheels and the rear jacking points. I kind of think it's better this way, cause this way I we are not going to be wrecking up a car that's really too nice to do it to. I know the history of the car, it still has the original 4 speed gearbox, and has over 500,000 miles on it.


Our original thoughts were to install a cage & skid plate, do the rust repair as well as the firewall mod to allow for installing a P/S rack from a 900 along with the 16V engine. Probably at first it makes the most sense to run a non turbo 2.1 liter engine with megasquirt or LH 2.4.2. As of now, it already has 88+ hubs and axle's installed along with 9000 brakes, it stops good. It runs and drives very nice except for the worn out inner tie rod's which makes for some interesting noises around turns.

Anyway, does anyone think it's a bad idea to rally with a car that already has over 500,000 miles on it? :lol:

[Jordan]

Hey,

I really do enjoy the old bumper style with e-codes. So where are you from?

What is wrong with the 9-5, it looks pretty nice.

[DeLorean]

Well I am originally from Elkins Park, PA but I live near Wilkes-Barre now most of the time, however work takes me all over the place. I am down near Philly probably 1 or 2 days out of most weeks. I am good friends with Jeff shore, he works at Fred beans saab as a tech in Doylestown. I drop by Mosiers Imports with him a few times every few months, so I know the Doylestown / New hope / Upper black eddy area pretty well too. I have actually had several runs in that area, great roads. Last run I did we had quite a turn out, maybe when I get around to getting on the other computer I'll post some pics. I'm sure many of the roads on my meets are roads people in the area know well. For anyone that knows, here are the route notes for the last run I had --

3nd Pennsylvania Saab run direction sheet. Note- please turn on headlights on the run. If we have to stop on the roadway for any reason, activate 4 way flashers.

1) Starting point is Route 309 at the Giant foods
2) Go right out of the giant foods on 309 North
3) Go Right onto 378 at the fork in the road
4) Stay on 378
5) Go Right after the 78 underpass onto Seldersville Rd
6) Seldersville Rd becomes Hickory Hill Rd
7) Hickory Hill Rd Friedensville Rd.
8) Stay Right at the fork, road becomes Meadows Rd
9) Go Right onto PA 412 / Main St. / Leitheville Rd
10) Turn Right onto Flint Hill Road (comes up fast)
11) Stay Straight onto Richland town Rd.
12) This road comes up fast- Left onto Peppermint valley Rd (25 mph limit- try to keep under 40...)
13) Stay straight onto Slifer Valley Rd. (this road has several 1 lane bridges and yumps)
14) Go Right onto Knecht Bridge Rd.
15) View Covered bridge
16) Stay Straight at stop sign
17) Becomes Township Line Rd, CAUTION, NEW TAR-Chip road surface
18) Go Right at stop sign onto 212 E
19) Go Right onto Slifer Valey Rd at the bottom of hill.
20)Continue on Sliffer valley Rd.
21) Left at end of Slifer valey Rd. onto PA-412
22) This road comes up very fast- Take the next right onto Lehnburg Rd (use caution on this road tight turns)
23) Follow Lehnburg Rd till route 611
24) Turn Right onto 611
25) Turn Left onto Beaver Rd. at the fork in the road, this is a dangerous maneuver, take your time
26) Turn left onto Marienstein
27) Stay straight on to Bridgeton Rd.
28) Turn right onto PA-32 / River Road
29) Possible BREAK AT PARK FOR PHOTOS
30) Pass the “road closed” signs
31) Go Right at stop sign onto Geigel Rd
32) Keep right at Tettemer Rd
33) Keep Left at the bend
34) Keep on Geigel Rd Left at washed out bridge (dirt road)
35) Keep Left over 1 lane bridge
36) Left onto Headquarters Rd.
37) Keep right on headquarters at the fork
38) Right onto River Rd / PA 32.
39) Go Right at the Detour sign (PA 32 N/S)
40) Left onto 413-S
41) At Stop Light, Go Left onto Point Pleasant Pike
42) Fork Right onto Ferry
43) Potential Photo Spot
44) Right at stop sign onto Fleecydale Rd
45) Right onto Carterville Rd
46) Right onto Piper
47) Left at stop sign onto Ferry Rd
48) Left at stop sign onto Point Pleasant Pike
49) Left at Field - Rattle Test Road
50) Left at stop Sign onto Saw Hill Rd
51) Right at Light onto N. Easton Rd
52) Left into Fred Beans Saab Dealership for Tec-2

anyway, that was a pretty good run, but next time I want to make it a bit more extensive. Has anyone here been to Saabtoberfest? I run the meet in a similar manner. It's not a rally or a race, it's a "spirited parade" :lol: I would have gone on some of the more extreme roads in the area, I wanted some dirt / water crossing's but there are always a lot of 9-3's and 9-5's so that's out

[Luke]

good roads! I know every one!

As to building a car with 500,000 miles i don't think it matters, you'll subject the thing to more stress in 3 rallies than in 500,000 of drving on the street. Seth has a rally car same year and color with a cage already it it I think he was interested in selling, the cage needed a few updates but was build by a reputable cage builder (union 7) maybe he will chime in.

[Crazyswede]

the car I have is a 78 99 hatch which experienced a roll back in 99 and hasnt been rallied since. However it does have reinforced lower a arms, stainless brake lines, a brake proportioning valve, intercom, lightened hood and rear hatch, big skid plate and under bar strengthening, and an older cage. To be legal again the car really needs a new cage, seats, wiring etc. The good is that the shell is already stripped and comes with some goodies. I wouldnt mind getting rid of it as I have too many other projects and I have a nice 78 shell waiting new build...so I dont realy need the old one.

[DeLorean]

What is wrong with the 9-5, it looks pretty nice.

oh and the 9-5 runs fine, I got it with a clutch that was probably near the end of it's lifespan... About a month after I got the thing, I bought a BSR stage 3 LPT ECU (someone was upgrading past that, so I got it at a good price). well the clutch lasted for about 2 months of my driving with the silly fast spool up and low RPM ignition advance that ECU gives it. So now it needs a clutch and since I have several "alternate cars" I can use, I have been collecting parts to do a light build up on the car to make it more fun. LSD, Aero clutch, Aero suspension as well as a bunch of maintenance related items are all going in next week. As nice as the stock LPT set up is :lol: this should make it a whole mot more drivable.

Seth has a rally car same year and color with a cage already it it I think he was interested in selling, the cage needed a few updates but was build by a reputable cage builder (union 7) maybe he will chime in.

very interesting, I hope he does, is the cage to modern spec? getting a cage in the thing that's actually up to the current requirements seems like one of the biggest hurdles to the entire process.

Luke, I'm glad you like the route. I know there are a lot of even better roads around, but I try to cover some ground with the group and not stick to entirely crazy roads. I don't actually live in the immediate area either, so it takes me some time to get a really good route together in the day or so that I do the pre-run in. I was planning on doing a run last winter, but it just never happened. If I get this rental fixed up and rented out in the next few months, I just might have some extra time to have another run. If you want to help plan it since you actually live around where I have the run, it would be great. I have been having the people who attended last years run hassling me on saablink to have another one!

[DeLorean]

ah, I see he beat me to the reply! I will PM

[Luke]

Our original thoughts were to install a cage & skid plate, do the rust repair as well as the firewall mod to allow for installing a P/S rack from a 900 along with the 16V engine. Probably at first it makes the most sense to run a non turbo 2.1 liter engine with megasquirt or LH 2.4.2. As of now, it already has 88+ hubs and axle's installed along with 9000 brakes, it stops good. It runs and drives very nice except for the worn out inner tie rod's which makes for some interesting noises around turns.
Anyway, does anyone think it's a bad idea to rally with a car that already has over 500,000 miles on it? :lol:

I think the 2.1 motor is a really good idea, if you combined that with 94-98 cylinder head, megasquirt and adapted the manifold for individual throttle bodys (or weber DCOE's if you have the money) you could have a pretty hot and reliable motor with out all the junk and weight associated with a turbo setup. If I were to build another turbo rally car it would defiantly be a 900. The turbo is great and all and we have managed to package it nicely in the 99 but it really took a lot of work to get everything to fit and still be servicable.
I have another shell I plan on building as a backup car and it will follow the K.I.S.S rules.
You might want to consider ditching the 9000 brakes. They are heavy and theres not any strong wheels available cheap to fit that lug pattern. Soccerballs are plentiful, cheap and strong.
You guys really need to do this, if we could have 4-5 teams running events on the east coast it would be awesome, we could all thrive off each other.

[DeLorean]

yeah, I think it would get going pretty well with a T5 head, just have to fix the timing cover so that it will actually bolt up and port-match the 2.1 manifold to the head. Do you have any experience with the timing cover? I have seen what other people have done on the forums, looks fairly easy but quite honestly we need more welding practice, or at least someone who is better at it than we are. I was thinking that we might be able to do some intake manifold crazyness using the stock 2.1 runners, a big drum plenum and an NG-900 TB or maybe 2 of em :lol: that with a set of headers and megasquirt should get the n/a 2.1 going real good.

I would really like to start on the project this spring / summer, we have the garage space and should be able to find the time.

[Luke]

I've modifed the timing covers its not that hard. Even if you have to pay a machinist to do it, it shouldnt be that expensive. There are pictures in our gallery somewhere. Those heads flow well! having now driven the exact same setup with both 2.1 and "T5" heads I can definatly say there is a very noticable difference.

[Jordan]

Said photos:

[DeLorean]

very interesting, looks fairly easy to do the timing cover mod. Also, on the T5 head, what is done about the P/S pump? If I am not mistaken, one of the bolts for the P/S pump mounts to the head, is that an issue or am I thinking about the A/C pulley? clearly I don't need that to bolt to the head

Luke, I have to disagree about there not being any strong 15's for the later style brakes. The directional 15's that I have on the SPG there (the 9000 ones 15x6) do seem to be pretty strong, though admitadly, I have not tested wheels as you have. I know that the soccer balls were designed to be able to be driven around on dirt roads with no tires and not bend, so those are REAL strong :lol: but from the abuse I have put those little 15" 9000 wheels through they have got to be pretty strong too... I guess if I bend a set all to crap on some test runs, I'll know they are not the best to use... You really think the weight of the brakes is a big concern? I know all the rotating mass is something you want to keep to a minimum, but weight Vs weight you think the 9000 brakes are really that much more hefty? In my experiences with them Vs the old style brakes, they work much much better, especially when it comes to brake fade.

[Luke]

You can make a bracket to bolt the power steering bolt to.


I just don't see a compelling reason to run the later hubs on a race car. The wheel selection is poor and you can't easily fit racing brakes with tons of pad compounds available. Take advantage of the fact that every major racing caliper company (wilwood,AP,alcon,outlaw,US brake) makes calipers that will bolt right onto our knuckles!

[DeLorean]

aah, well that makes sense. that bracket looks easy as cake to make.

[paulh]

yeah i'm thinking the early brakes are the way to go, plus i can use the hubs/rear axle that it has on my EMS!

we really do need to get going on this, i'm sick and tired of spectating at these things :lol:

how hard was the c900 rack to fit? just lots of cutting and welding i would assume? cause the rack on that car is definitely shot.

Paul

edit cause i wasnt paying attention when i was typing :lol: