T5 Wiring Harness Help

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hutch
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T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby hutch » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:27 pm

I thought there are a few people on here with classics running trionic and I want to finally gain some momentum on my project. There used to be some good pictures floating around but I think a lot of them went down with saabphotos.com. Could one of you who are running T5 post some pictures of how you connected the relays to the harness? And also some pictures of how you ran the various power leads to the ecu? I can see the numbers on the wiring diagrams but I'm much more of a visual person so photos would be very helpful.

It is my (basic) understanding that you pretty much just need to lengthen all the wires for the various engine sensors and then wire up the relays and find some power and you're close to running. I don't like some of the 'basic' installs that just ignored the relays and ran the fuel pump right off the battery but I'm a little confused as there is a lot of info out there with various people's installs.

Thanks in advance.

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Jordan
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby Jordan » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:33 pm

SwedeSport is commissioning me to do up a nice T5 harness for his c900 and with requisite relay board. I could make two if you were interested. I'm thinking either a weather-pak connector or two that you could splice the stock power/fuel pump/etc onto the other end for a nice clean install. I've read you should use the t5 power relays, but I haven't compared specs between the two systems yet. PM me if your interested.

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DrewP
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby DrewP » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:54 pm

I think the newer plastic case relays that come from the T5 installs are diode-protected, so that if the alternator field wire isn't grounded out correctly at key off it won't let the relays stick closed and keep the engine running. Had that happen to a few C900's.

There is a writeup on SaabLink by the user MikeD I believe that has some rudimentary wiring diagrams and lots of photos if you want to attempt it yourself.

I have been busy lately, might have Jordan just do one for me so he can go all kinds of batch-work on it.
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Jordan
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby Jordan » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:49 pm

I looked at Mike's post on Saablink and it looks like a wire bomb. Kudos for making it work, but not the prettiest install (which he acknowledges). I'd be willing to do whatever, I just need to look at a specific harness and make a plan. It sounds like the mid year NG harnesses are the best to use vs one from a 9000 in terms of wire length for a c900.

If its a standard bosch-style one you can get them in diode suppression form...but I'd have to check them out.

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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby hutch » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:58 pm

I looked at the write up on saabcentral and it had a great pinout list, but it was the one where the pictures went down. I thought it was one of the talented PNW crew which is why I thought they might have posted it on here as well. The saablink one has good info but it's all over the place...

Jordan I'm gonna send you a PM in a few minutes.

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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby Nate » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:17 am

Not everyone's harness looks like a mess

http://www.saablink.net/forum/728468-post23.htm

The wiring harness diagram MikeD posted is okay but as Squaab pointed out.

"It has been going well for over a year, with a few minor problems. He had wired the coolant temp sensor per a wiring diagram he got off the net. It had the wrong pinouts to the ECU. This why he had cold start problems. "

I would use the diagram to wire the relays but use the T5 suite manual for the ecu pinouts.

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squaab99t
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby squaab99t » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:30 am

hutch wrote:I looked at the write up on saabcentral and it had a great pinout list, but it was the one where the pictures went down. I thought it was one of the talented PNW crew which is why I thought they might have posted it on here as well. The saablink one has good info but it's all over the place...

Jordan I'm gonna send you a PM in a few minutes.


That is 99Sven's write up on SC. I'll ping him to see if he has the photos locally (harddrive) and he can upload them in this thread.

Got to give the Saablink folks an A for effort, execution is another story.
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby Luke » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:43 am

I had really studied the wiring diagrams a few years ago when I was thinking of using it on the rally car and from what I can recall I don't see why the core of the LH wiring related to the fuel pump relay and main injection relay couldnt be recycled, or at least the logic was the same - 30 is the hot lead, 85 pulls to ground on ecu, 87 is output etc...
I had made some basic diagrams at the time to get it all hooked up, I think I sold the harness and a bunch of associated bits to you Hutch?

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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby Jordan » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:41 am

Logic should definitely be the same, I just wondered about the extra power needed for the ignition side as well as more delicate circuitry. It may not make a difference, but I'd rather err on the safe side and do the research myself. Lots of conflicting info on the net. If I'm doing one, I might as well do more... if I have to order stuff from waytek, the minimum order amounts get expensive quick. I was actually thinking of doing the conversion to my car as well. It is such a mutt already I probably have more time in back-fitting the LH 2.4 ECU on to the 2.4.2 harness, adding the APC and changing the ignition system already than if I had done T5 from the beginning. I'd probably keep the stock tune but its supposed to make a world of a difference in drive-ability. That is until it become RACECAR....

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Crazyswede
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby Crazyswede » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:12 am

Jordan wrote:Logic should definitely be the same, I just wondered about the extra power needed for the ignition side as well as more delicate circuitry. It may not make a difference, but I'd rather err on the safe side and do the research myself. Lots of conflicting info on the net. If I'm doing one, I might as well do more... if I have to order stuff from waytek, the minimum order amounts get expensive quick. I was actually thinking of doing the conversion to my car as well. It is such a mutt already I probably have more time in back-fitting the LH 2.4 ECU on to the 2.4.2 harness, adding the APC and changing the ignition system already than if I had done T5 from the beginning. I'd probably keep the stock tune but its supposed to make a world of a difference in drive-ability. That is until it become RACECAR....


I have about 1/2 mile of waytek wire at home right now due to the minimum orders that seem to have increased since the last time I looked. 250' spools are required for orders now.
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DrewP
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby DrewP » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:02 pm

I told Jordan already that I have a 9000 and a '99 9-3 harness I was going to build up myself, but I can send them to Jordan to do some development on. This is a place I'd rather spend the money than do the time myself I think.

I have all the factory wiring diagrams for these harnesses too, and for NG's if anyone wants one for a specific year. No need to resort to pulling from the T5Suite manual and hoping that it's the same, the wiring harnesses had minor changes almost every year, and wire colors are very different depending on if it's pre- or post-OBDII, with the double O2 sensors.


Nate wrote:The wiring harness diagram MikeD posted is okay but as Squaab pointed out.

"It has been going well for over a year, with a few minor problems. He had wired the coolant temp sensor per a wiring diagram he got off the net. It had the wrong pinouts to the ECU. This why he had cold start problems. "





This is hilarious. A little sad, but hilarious.
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby SwedeSport » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:19 pm

I can do alot of things, but outside of basic electrical stuff I'm lost. I agree with Drew that I would rather just pay to get something I can plug in and go.

Looks like a good business model for Jordan. Plug and Play T5 harnesses.

Jordan and I have been chatting for a while about my 84 Notchback project. It's basically just a stock car, so the wiring is pretty simple. But fuse box relocation is probably going to complicate things.

I guess the engine control system doesn't care what powered options are installed in the car.

Does it make more sense to make the harness from scratch, or adapt an existing one?
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby Geoff » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:35 pm

I saw Mike's convertible a few years ago right after he had done the conversion. It ran super smooth but the install... I was embarrassed to look at it. Of course he gave a disclaimer before opening the hood that it looked like crap and had only taken something like a few hours to install.

I'd like to install T5 on my dad's '90 which has never ran right because of the whacky EGR stuff. But, I wouldn't be able to get him to commit to it and I don't want to spend the time. Maybe I should convince him to give me the car instead.
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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby Nate » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:39 pm

SwedeSport wrote:
Does it make more sense to make the harness from scratch, or adapt an existing one?



Adapting an existing one would be 100x easier. You're talking 60-70 different wires running all over the place, not to mention all of the oddball connectors you would need.

I added 6" of length to the entire harness so that I could mount the ecu in the same place and be able to run the wiring through the factory location. I.E. running up and around the power steering reservoir.

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Re: T5 Wiring Harness Help

Postby Jordan » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:04 pm

I have some conflicting thoughts since I like to use the stock stuff as much as possible, but would also want it to be as easy as possible to install. Basically, If your stock chassis harness is in good order, I'd build off that and do some sort of adapter set. You'd still have to splice a few wires, or replace terminals (whatever was easier) on your end to retain the factory pieces/look. For the small amount of DIY, I'd provide labeled wires and instructions. The majority would be plug and play, since what you're really supplying is power/ground/fuel pump trigger etc. Unless I could find a connector(s) that supplies all of the needed parts for the t5 ins/outs (maybe), there will still probably be crimping to do. I won't know for sure until I take a closer look.
Obviously, if its going in a race car with little in the form of stock stuff , its not going to make a difference and we can use nice readily available connectors and build-to-suit.


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