SAAB's at Black River Stages 2007!!

[Luke]

Ok so over the weekend at Groo's we were discussing how cool it would be to have 5-6 SAABs on the start list of a Rally, people would be totally bewildered, It would be awesome. Several of us have cars that are built or in progress or could be in progress soon. So what we need is a target date for people to aim for. I am laying it out for you right now...

SAAB's at BRS 2007.

Black River is one of one last events of the season (sept 29th), its cheap, its a blast and its in NY state (which is close for most of us)

So...

Luke: I'm in!
Mike: I think you'll definatly be done by then
Groo: Get that thing caged and I'll spend a couple weekends to finish it off
Per: Whats your timeline for the car, stage prepared by fall a possibility?
Geoff: One last hooraw for the 99? I know it will pass NASA tech with a few updates
James: Heard progress was starting last weekend, git'r'done!
Seth: Someone here might need your codriving skills but if you can comeup with a workable car by all means lets do it
Jeff and Paul: You got the shell, you got plenty of parts just get the minimal done you'll have all winter to change things after BRS


Thoughts?
Then get your butts off the computer and into the garage and lets do it!

[GRMPer]

My goal is Sandblast 2008. That's a long way off..but I can't really start on the cage until the Alfa goes away (fall).

Per

[DeLorean]

I agree, it would be totally awesome.

We have every intention of ordering the tubing and starting work on the cage with the new tig welder ASAP. Looking like we will probably be able to get started after Carlisle. We want the cage to basically be able to conform to all the new current standards so it will never be a future issue. Sept. is probably pushing it at the rate we work :lol: But it could be done in time if we had some help with the cage. Once we get that done and in the car, everything else is easy!

[max]

Yeah "almost in canada" might be a long way for Per to go for his first race. :lol:

[Luke]

Ok I guess I will have to raise the stakes:
Any SAAB that leaves the first control will receive 250 saabrally.com dollars, good for any cool shit you want me to make you.

[Crazyswede]

Bruce was so happy to have someone who actually called out corners in the car that he has left the invite open for me to ride with him at Black River....Provided that Luke, or Mike, or Groo, or Geoff, or whomever else doesn't need a rider. If I don't have a seat and they are going to do the rally moto at Black River then I will probably run that.

Though, conceivably I could have a base car ready....but we need to deliver a certain shell to the saabrally lab and get crackin on it.

[Jordan]

i should get my co-drivers license since we are going to have all these rally cars now

[Geoff]

Geoff: One last hooraw for the 99? I know it will pass NASA tech with a few updates

I wish... I need a whole new cage right down to cutting the mounting feet off and welding new ones on. This is why I haven't run any events. I want to build a new car which means I need to make some room and time. Anyone want to buy a half-disassembled 99T?

[Luke]

Geoff: One last hooraw for the 99? I know it will pass NASA tech with a few updates

I wish... I need a whole new cage right down to cutting the mounting feet off and welding new ones on. This is why I haven't run any events. I want to build a new car which means I need to make some room and time. Anyone want to buy a half-disassembled 99T?

Well we all know that you probably should recage it, but there are way worse cages on cars out there currently running events! Some of those old VW rabbits, scary. NASA tech is really very different than SCCA/Rally America, especially at a small regional like black river. Most of the check offs are done and signed off by the competetor with the the inspector really just checking belts and glancing at the cage (unless you get the bungy nazi, thats another story) Remember that you are largely grandfathered in, and that most of the new rules don't apply to existing logbooked cars. I really think you should just go for it!

[Geoff]

Do you think it would pass with undersized cage tubing (1.5" on all the bars) and very undersized mounting feet (8 square inches vs 18)? Its a significant investment to get the car going again (cleaned up, some cage tubes added, possibly the engine replaced, maybe some new paint). Plus the investment in the cost of the rally, hotel, transport etc. It would be a shame to take all that time and $ and then find out I can't even run because the cage isn't legal. Is there anyone I can have check out the car? I think Don Taylor only does it for Rally America (he used to do it for SCCA) but he is local to me...

[Luke]

Geoff,

Do you have any pictures? I've seen it a bunch of times but I can't remember exactly the status of the diagonals and stuff. I know you had door bars though so thats good. They can even still be removable by nasa rules.

Here what the NASA rules say:
For cars homologated as from 01/01/2005, and those
presented for logbook as from 01/01/2007 the minimum
configuration of a safety cage is defined by Drawing 253-4A for
rallies and 253-4B

That sort of loosely implies that cars logbooked prior to 2005 are subject to different rules. Of course those rules are not explictly laid out but I have seen many cars still running full 1.5" cages.

I would email or call Andrew Smith, he's a really nice guy and used to rally a SAAB 96 many years ago. He logbooked my car and told me "ya know, nice cage and all but it really dosent need one, its a saab"
I would tell him you have a car that hasnt run in a few years but you'd really like to make it out for one event this year, he'll be able to tell you what if anything might need updating.

Andrew B. Smith - East Chief Scrutineer
2023 East Center Street
Tremont, PA 17981
516-384-9141
giantkilleracing@yahoo.com

[Geoff]

I don't have much for pictures and nothing at work.

My cage is pretty much like 235-3 with one diagonal in the main hoop (one of the bars highlighted in 253-4), a straight bar linking the bottoms of the main hoop, a bar for belts between the rear bars (the ones that attach to the rear wheel wells), one diagonal door bar per side (starts high on the main hoop, ends at the foot of the side hoop), and some gussets and the extension into the engine bay. All of it is 1.50" x 0.95" The mounting feet are 2" wide by 4" to 5" long (little strips by comparison of new cages).

Do they still recognize old SCCA logbooks?

I also probably need seats as I don't think mine have the FIA label (they are OMP though) and a number of other things (helmet became outdated, belts, etc.) and the car needs some serious going-through. I don't think I'd have time to get it done for BRS considering all the other stuff I have to get done and I have no vacation time left either

I'll give Andrew a call at some point to discuss. If I can I'd like to get the car going for a few more events, maybe next year.

[Luke]

Geoff that sounds like it would pass muster pretty easily. A diagonal in the rear stays would make it pass for sure. For the feet remember that you can add vertical plates up the sides of the sills and weld them to the plates that you already have and that will count towards the surface area requirements. I have extra FIA rated seats you can use (they are even yellow to match, LOL)

you can see the plates I welded on my front feet to get the surface area needed.



What if we had a massive SAAB RALLY PREP 2-3 day weekend festival to be held somewhere in New England this summer (Like CT or MASS to be central) Groo's place might be perfect. We could organize it beforehand and break down into teams and with lists of things to accomplish for each car. Between all of us there would plenty of labor, knowledge and tools available. Sometimes all it takes is some group motivation and amazing thing can happen. My car was basically built from scratch in 2 of these "saabfarm" sessions. Anybody have some company time off around july 4th?

[Jordan]

I have an uncle's birthday party July 4th ( I think it's mid-week), but weekends around that I think would be ok. I'd love to help out. Everybody still has a fair bit of time before BRS sneaks up on you.

[Geoff]

Yeah, it has the diagonal in the rear. It looks like it need another bar in the main hoop to make an "X"...

I started fabbing the feet add-ons to weld around the existing feet (sounds pretty worthless to me) a while back then they changed the rules and said you couldn't have any bolt in cages even if they were welded in (which mine is). They changed that rule since though. I need to find those pieces I was fabbing, they were kind of a pain to make because I had to cut and bend angle steel because I needed little slivers to go on top of the sill plate too.

What kind of seats are those that you have? Just curious about bracketry.

I'm off July 4th, but thats a Wednesday. If I did a bunch of prep work we might be able to get the car ready if it will pass tech...