Water Injection

[RadioFlyer]

Apparently Saab made a factory water injection kit for the 99/900 that was on the Enduro. Anyone seen one of these systems in person / have one that they would be willing to part with? Anyone ever used one?

edit: After researching a bit, I've seen people comment on the 99 system issues - 1. You cannot run the Saab WI system with an intercooler installed - apparently it can cause water to pool in the intercooler which is problematic. 2. The water is atomized by passing through the turbo. This can corrode the turbo blades. 3. You cannot install the system downstream of the turbo or intercooler because the water cannot be misted enough apparently. Anyone have comments on this?

[squaab99t]

I run water/meth injection post the intercooler on both the 99t and 900c. This is actually the the best setup because it allows the intercooler to do it greatest potential. Intercoolers work because of the delta T between the charge and ambient air temp. Adding the water meth inject post created further cooling of the charge.
Back in the day I suspect they could not package a pump in an acceptable size and power draw to create good atomization, so they shot it into the turbo. Today we have 120 psi pumps the size of a PBR tall boy.
Kinda cool to have a Saab original water injection but not by any means the best solution.
Do a search on water injection. I think I remember someone posting the original install instructions.
Also check out the Aquamist site. Great info on placement of nozzles.

[RadioFlyer]

Thanks Dennis - do you recommend water injection (plus intercooler) for a spirited daily driver, or would it really only be practical for racing application?

[hutch]

Ive never run one myself but have you looked into a water/air intercooler?

Like water injection systems the price has come down a lot in recent years. It seems they are best suited for DD duty or 1/4 racing as they can get heatsoaked if you're at 100% throttle for a long time but probably not something you'd need to worry about in a relatively low power Saab. If you use ice you can get the charge temperature below ambient but obviously this isn't the best long term solution. They are however relatively compact so you can fit them in tight engine bays like a 99 or a 900 with CIS.

I had thought about doing it because I didn't want to hack up the radiator support but in the end I figured you have to add about the same amount of pipework etc. that a simple air/air intercooler would be the best option since you don't have to worry about anything once you have it bolted up. Water injection is certainly an interesting idea though, I would be a little curious how the CIS and APC systems would react to it though. Theres probably easier power to be had but it would be a cool project.

[squaab99t]

Thanks Dennis - do you recommend water injection (plus intercooler) for a spirited daily driver, or would it really only be practical for racing application?

Sure. The nice thing about water injection is it is only used on demand. Set you hobbs switch to come on at a certain boost threshold. Anything below that and you just use the intercooler as normal. This the very minimal rudimentary version. More sophisticated versions are progressive and supply the correctly tuned amount of delivery similar to and fuel injection map.
Here is a write-up on the system I designed and build utilizing my standalone ecu to drive delivery. Unfortunate saabphoto is no longer. I can try to upload pixs if you are interested.
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showt ... ecu+driven

Key element that I employ is that I set my ignition map to the best minimum timing w/o the water. This way if you run out, pump fails, hose pops off, you don't pop a hole in your piston. Adding the water meth is just a bonus. This shows my gains of with and without water meth with no change in the ignition timing back to back runs. The line with the hashes is with water/meth. Remember methanol is a fuel and your charge is more dense.

[RadioFlyer]

Wow - thats great! So tell me about the potential to blow a piston if the water runs out - how does that happen? Once you install the system, is it possible to just not use it (like if you want to just unplug it during winter), or are you stuck with it for life?

[SwedeSport]

Luke's Rally Car (16v) runs water injection.

We fill the water tank at every service. He has run out of water numerous times. Other than losing potential power, we never burned up the motor.

[squaab99t]

Wow - thats great! So tell me about the potential to blow a piston if the water runs out - how does that happen? Once you install the system, is it possible to just not use it (like if you want to just unplug it during winter), or are you stuck with it for life?

It is called greed. Because of the cooler charge you can run more ignition timing and/or boost. If you tune to the ragged edge with the water meth and squeeze out the most torque and the water runs out you run a very high chance you will predetonate and nothing ever becomes good of that.
Again this is being conservative and most likely the same strategy Luke is using. There are some systems that can detect flow and if it is retarded or stop will adjust your timing automatically even if you keep your foot into like a dumbass. Check out AEM. They got it going on. Banks also has a new single and double shot system I saw at SEMA this year.

[RadioFlyer]

Good to know. I don't think I'll need anything complicated - not planning on racing, just boosting daily driver power a bit (and seriously increasing coolness factor). Would love to stick with OEM Saab accessories - if not to keep it somewhat original, also just to see what it was like. Don't think I'll be able to find them though. What if I did a hybrid - Saab system with a newer high-PSI pump so I can run it just before the TB and install in intercooler?

[squaab99t]

Luke's Rally Car (16v) runs water injection.

We fill the water tank at every service. He has run out of water numerous times. Other than losing potential power, we never burned up the motor.

Very smart to check the level. Treat it like any other fluid. You would not hit the track hard without first checking the engine and gearbox oil would you?

[SwedeSport]

http://Www.snowperformance.net

They have a Saab section...

Water/Methanol injection kits, controllers and guages.

[Crazyswede]

we ran water injection in the turbo car up until the day before STPR that we realized the pump had water in it and it had frozen over the winter...thus breaking the pump housing.

[squaab99t]

we ran water injection in the turbo car up until the day before STPR that we realized the pump had water in it and it had frozen over the winter...thus breaking the pump housing.

That suxs. That is why you should run water/methanol mixture. I mix my own 50/50 by mass. No reason to pay for shipping around water prep mix.

[Luke]

we ran water injection in the turbo car up until the day before STPR that we realized the pump had water in it and it had frozen over the winter...thus breaking the pump housing.

That suxs. That is why you should run water/methanol mixture. I mix my own 50/50 by mass. No reason to pay for shipping around water prep mix.

Unfortunately there's this:
http://rally-america.com/pdf/Rule_Bulletin_2006_015.pdf

[squaab99t]

we ran water injection in the turbo car up until the day before STPR that we realized the pump had water in it and it had frozen over the winter...thus breaking the pump housing.

That suxs. That is why you should run water/methanol mixture. I mix my own 50/50 by mass. No reason to pay for shipping around water prep mix.

Unfortunately there's this:
http://rally-america.com/pdf/Rule_Bulletin_2006_015.pdf

Double sux. F'in rules...
RadioFlyer should not fall under that sanctioning body.