So there are a whole bunch of cam choices. Supposedly, the T5 / T7 cams make the cam timing a bit off on the 45 degree engine blocks? There are a whole bunch of cams EPC lists, but really there is no telling exactly what's what there.

I know that the early 2.0 n/a motors use different cams, and then there is the "1985 exhaust cam" and the 2.1 liter cams (which I believe are the same as the early 9000 2.3 n/a) - and then the 86-93 "turbo" cams. It has been said by many the best combination is the pre trionic 2.1 / 2.3 intake cam along with an 85 exhaust cam. Any truth to this? I have this in my SPG now, and it seems to work. Is it any better then standard turbo cams? I say Maybe?

I am putting together a new motor with a whole bunch of other goodies which should have good flow and power in the upper RPM range. Any thoughts as to if the 85 exh cam, and the n/a intake cam be the set up to use?

http://genuinesaab.com/temp/cams.htm

maybe this will help

Very interested in this as well. I just acquired a set of 85 "swirl" cams and am already running the B212/B234 head cams.
Is what DeLorean has done/planned worth doing?

John

I couldn't tell a difference (seat of the pants) between b212/earlyB234 cams and the '85 exhaust cam for what it's worth.

I found this on TSN-

Motor & year Inlet lift, opens, closes exhaust lift, open, close
(mm) (BTDC) (ATDC) (mm) (BBDC) (ATDC)

B202t -1985 8.65/6.65** 16 56 8.65 56 10
B202t cat -86 8.65/6.65** 16 56 8.65 56 10

B202t 1986- 8.65 16 56 8,65 61 13
B202t cat 87- 8.65 16 56 8,65 61 13

B202i 1986- 8.65 16 44 8,65 61 13
B212i 1991- 8.65 16 44 8,65 61 13

B234i 90-93 8.65 13 53 8.65 50 16
B234t 91-93 8.65 13 53 8.65 50 16

B204all 94- 8.65 14 46 8.65 44 16
B234t 94- 8.65 14 46 8.65 44 16

B234i 94- 8.65 13 53 8.65 48 18

** - the difference in the height of the two lobes is for swirl in
the combustion chamber

BTDC - Before Top Dead Center
ATDC - After " " "
BBDC - Before Bottom Dead Center

B202i:

B = Gasoline (Bransle in Swedish)
20 = displacement in deciliters 20=2l, 21 = 2.1l, etc.
2 = # of cam (or other) shafts 2 = slant block, 4 = balance shaft block
i = injection, t=turbo, all=all variants (i thru t)

cat = means with catalyst

OK, now I'm going to ask this question too! I see the numbers above but quite frankly it's a bit confusing to me. I love to learn though.

The motor in my 85 lost compression in 1 cylinder, and it's time to replace/upgrade it. I'm actually looking forward to getting rid of the funky B/H hybrid motor with it's swirly head/cam design that get pissed when you try to throw some timing at it! Right off the bat I'll just be putting a newer stock motor in, but this winter I'd love to upgrade the head and cams to whatever is the best possible setup for a c900/B202 running T5. So... does anyone have an answer???

I'm used to the old c900 mantra of a 2.1 head, the 2.1 intake cam and the 85 exhaust cam. But do the same rules still apply with Trionic? Is it worth upgrading to the 205 head? But then what cams?

I have a 2.0 turbo bottom end, with the T5 head off a 97 9000, and the adaptations to make all that work. Then it has a 91 9000-i intake cam, and an 85 turbo exhaust cam, and a TD04HL 19t Turbo. On T5 engine management w/ larger injectors and the 3 bar map sensor. This going into a classic 900.

Well.... I'll let you know how it works next week!

The motor that's coming out of my car also has a wiped out #1 cylinder. 2 reasons for this one being the problem. If you look at the stock fuel rail, and compare this with a Trionic equipped car, it's a LOT bigger on T5 cars, and a boxed design. Cyl 1 on C-900's is the furthest away from the fuel supply inlet, and is also the longest exhaust run, so basically this is the hottest cylinder and gets the least fuel if there is any sort of a pressure drop in the rail. You'd only have this happen at full throttle maximum load, and probably high RPM's. I'm sure neither of these things were a problem at 160-185HP, but clearly at some point they are.

The motor I am putting in should in theory have the cooking #1 cyl solved - it has the boxed fuel rail, and an equal length exhaust header.

Very interested in hearing how it works out...

I've also lost compression on #1, and I suspect we pushed the car too hard while doing some road tuning a little while back. We got it pinging pretty badly (too much timing for the 85 motor) and I suspect a cracked piston. We'll find out when we pull it.

I forget what all is involved in running the trionic head, but I will go back and research it.

Very interesting theory on the cooked #1 cylinder! I have the 9k boxed fuel rail and a fresh pump. But again, the funky 85 motor does not lend itself well to tuning and timing.

Oh, and is anyone still doing equal length headers??? Or is it a custom build only sorta thing?

Cark wrote:Very interested in hearing how it works out...

I've also lost compression on #1, and I suspect we pushed the car too hard while doing some road tuning a little while back. We got it pinging pretty badly (too much timing for the 85 motor) and I suspect a cracked piston. We'll find out when we pull it.

I forget what all is involved in running the trionic head, but I will go back and research it.

Very interesting theory on the cooked #1 cylinder! I have the 9k boxed fuel rail and a fresh pump. But again, the funky 85 motor does not lend itself well to tuning and timing.

Oh, and is anyone still doing equal length headers??? Or is it a custom build only sorta thing?

T5 head requires:

welded timing cover
modified intake


might be a third thing I cannot think of

I believe there are some modifications to the motor mount and power steering bracket as well.

Yep, intake manifold (the hard part) - the timing cover (less hard, but still hard) and the motor mount bracket as well as the power steering bracket "adapter" piece. and if you wanted AC, even more bracket fabrication. They really changed the cam sprocket area of the head just enough to make the whole thing annoyingly difficult. Same with the manifold.

I had an interesting (albeit brief) conversation with Dave Kennedy this morning and head/cam combos came up. He mentioned that in his experience, the 2.1 head with it's much larger intake ports tends to slow spool time. Granted most of his experience is on LH cars, and maybe you can adjust timing a bit more in T5 to compensate, but I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this? I understand the 2.1 head lowers compression slightly as well, but that seems negligible. He seems to have a lot of confidence in the engineering done by SAAB and thinks the factory setups could actually be the best!

My big thing is off boost performance and low to mid range power/torque. I never ever spend time near redline, so top end power is of no concern to me at all.

I'm dropping a 90 motor into my 85 on Sunday, but will be holding off on any head/cam stuff for now. I'll definitely keep my 85 exhaust cam for the future though. Eventually when I come up with the "best" head, I'd love to get together with my tuner (Mike D) and try to get some solid dyno results on what is the best intake and exhaust cam combo to suit my needs.

I'm perhaps of a similar mindset, maybe I've gotten tame driving a T7 car, but I actually don't love the 2.1 head swap unless you are building a full on race engine. I think the lowered compression makes for a sort of crappy driver if you are not on the throttle 100% of the time. Most turbo engines these days seem to add compression to make for a better powerband, not lower it, so especially with a better system like Trionic I would rather have the higher compression vs marginal flow increase with the stock 2.1 setup. Even Saab kept raising the compression ratio throughout the years as they developed APC into Trionic...

^exactly the sort of info/opinion I was looking for Hutch! I DON'T want to have to be on boost and deep into the revs al the time to feel the power. I'm thinking I'll stick with the normal B202 head, and then just play around with cams.

The lowered compression only happens when you put the 2.1 head over 2.0 pistons.

Gary Reider stuck a turbo and T5 on a 2.1 motor (bottom end. and top end). It has really good pickup off boost.

T5 is sophisticated enough to handle the boost on a higher compression engine.