T7 Wiring Harness Compatibility

[hutch]

So this isn't quite Saab rally related but I asked elsewhere and didn't get any responses and figured you all are smart with these cars, not to mention it would be good to get some discussion going again here!

Backstory: I picked up a '99 LB Viggen that has low boost, in changing some things I discovered some wires on the AMP connector for the DIC that were worn through. I covered them in heatshrink and swapped on a new AMP connector thanks to my bag o' T5 parts, but I'd like to find a more permanent solution.

My previous Viggen was an '01 and it had the later style delivery pipe with the updated style of intake air sensor, I see eeuro has a kit to 'upgrade' to the later style but details are scarce on the wiring involved:
https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/404435 ... 101K10337/

Does anyone know if I got a whole T7 ECU harness and delivery pipe from a later 9-3 if it would be plug and play? I figure I could remedy the not great wiring and simplify the wiring a bit all at once. I'm just a bit confused as the '99 seems to have a pressure sensor and temp sensor on the delivery pipe whereas the later ones just have one sensor so I'm a bit confused as to the wiring involved since the T7 wiring diagram I have doesn't differentiate between these styles

Viggen pics for clicks

[Sam]

Pretty confident the ECU pinouts are all the same. The MY99 9-5 also have the weird plumbing layout. That just leaves the wiring harness to be whats different.

[hutch]

Yeah thats certainly what it seems like me to, I just can't figure out where the extra sensor goes on the later harness when its removed from the delivery pipe

I wish I could find MY specific T7 pinouts as I'm just going off what I see in the T7Suite PDF (which I assume is very correct)

Anyway, I think I'm going to swing by a junkyard this weekend and see what I can find and I'll update this if it works! Thanks!

[Sam]

I might be wrong on this, but i think the whole intake manifold might be different on the early ones. Maybe thats where the sensor is?

[hutch]

Yeah I believe the early B235 engines had the 2 piece manifolds, something about air-flushed injectors or something along those lines? But I believe T7 has 2 pressor signals, one in the manifold and one in the pipe so that it can reference them against each other for some reason. I believe the new sensor in the delivery pipe just combined the temp and pressure sensors and the pressure sensor remained in the manifold.

I was also debating about swapping the whole shebang, but I believe the injectors have a different voltage/flow rating so you need to run a later tune as well so that may be a down the road sort of project.

If anyone is curious about this in the future, this is one of the threads I had found that made it seem possible, if the new sensor really is pressure and temp then it would make some sense that the wiring to the ECU is untouched and they just both share the same ground and reference voltage now:
https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/show ... p?t=541634

ECU Pin - connector ID - color - function

70 - A -Bk - ground
15 - B - Bk/Wh - intake air temp signal out
46 - C - Gy - 5 volt supply
35 - D - Bu/Wh - pressure signal out

[Sam]

The one on the manifold measures pressure past the throttle plate so that it knows to adjust yo blow off when the plate slams shut.

I have been without a t7 car for so long now. You make me want a bigger like that one. I still have all the t7suite tools stashed away.

[hutch]

Do it!! The Viggen definitely isn't quite refined as my 9-5 was but I've had a smile on my face ever since I bought it, tons of fun.

I too have the T7suite stuff stashed away but something about T7 tuning scares me more than T5, especially on the daily driver. I do really want to turn openSID on so I can help diagnose my low boost situation...

[Sam]

I just installed a boost gauge back then. Now that there are wireless gauge options we don’t have to permanently install one.

[Jordan]

The "kit" is a supercession number from SAAB (ORIO). I came across this a few weeks ago when a customer was enquiring what was involved to do the change over. Basically, the early cars use a separate MAP sensor and intake temp sensor which was combined in the later cars. The other confusing issue is the number wires that need to be changed over since one is a 3 vs 4 pin if I am remembering correctly. In reality , the terminals are the same for both connectors, so you can de-pin and swap connectors and I believe just connect the "extra" ground wires together (or just attach to ground). Of course with the different sensor, the up-pipe is different, but that shouldn't be too hard to find, and you'd need that regardless. I'd think that would be much easier than swapping the whole harness.

Setting up Open SID is easy, and T7 tuning is a different animal conceptually, but is actually easier once you wrap your head around it. Happy to help.

[hutch]

Hey Jordan, thanks for checking in! I sent a very similar email through eeuro last night but that may just cover it....

I actually found nothing useful in the junkyard this past weekend which was depressing as Saabs may finally be a thing of the past, but managed to pick up the pipe from a local CL guy last night.

I'm sure the connector swap is much more simple than the harness change, I'm mostly concerned with some of the DIC wiring but again, that would probably be simpler to just to touch up instead of swapping the whole thing.

[Crazyswede]

9-5's are becoming very inexpensive....to the point where I wish I had a big barn to start buying and storing them so that I could just drive 9-5s for the the next 20 years. That said....apart from the hassle of dealing with an entire car...I bet you could find a whole 9-5 for very cheap and then mine it for parts and sell the rest. I'm seeing them locally in the $300 - $5000 range

[Sam]

I would still own one if they weren't such a pain to work on. Alternator, transmission and rear engine mount are all horrible not to mention the constant DI and cps sensors. Its too bad, dream of having that motor with T5 parts that don't break in a longitudinal layout.

[Jordan]

You have my email Phil if you ever need anything like that, sometimes those messages get to me, sometimes not haha. The wiring for the DIC are easily replaced too, unless it is REALLY bad, but most of the time it is just at the connector. If so you can re-terminate and replace the connector if you need to.

9-5s aren't that bad to work on compared to any other modern car. It's all relative. DI and CPS seem to last about 120-150k+ for me and are cheap and easy to replace. The dog leg rust is the most annoying part for me!

[Sam]

I have been tempted by some of the 2006-2009s i see on craigslist in the $1000 range. I wouldn't mind one as a second car but would have to live with the automatic since the later ones didn't come in stick. Maybe i should just get one since our primary car is a stick wrangler. I suppose i could live with it.

[hutch]

You have my email Phil if you ever need anything like that, sometimes those messages get to me, sometimes not haha. The wiring for the DIC are easily replaced too, unless it is REALLY bad, but most of the time it is just at the connector. If so you can re-terminate and replace the connector if you need to.

9-5s aren't that bad to work on compared to any other modern car. It's all relative. DI and CPS seem to last about 120-150k+ for me and are cheap and easy to replace. The dog leg rust is the most annoying part for me!

I'll post a photo tonight (if I didn't throw it out) of the connector that got chewed up, it was very strange as there shouldn't really have been a hose or anything rubbing up against it. But the bottom right corner got worn through and the wiring got exposed.

Its a leap, for sure, but given my low boost issue despite replacing the common issue sensors, I'm just wondering if one of the DIC knock detection signals is acting up and causing the car to pull boost. I put a new connector on and put tape over the wires but a more permanent fix is a surely needed, hopefully will do that and this sensor swap all at the same time.

But thank you, I will email you directly in the future!

And agreed about the 9-5's being reasonable to work on, with some exceptions of course, the dog leg is killer though and the main reason I sold mine.

Sam I think you should test drive an automatic 9-5 as you may be impressed, it for sure isn't as engaging as a stick, but its a very nice transmission and the Sport mode is actually extremely responsive. To the point where you have to be careful not to light up the tires when pulling away from stop lights!