winter rally incar videoclip

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t16_rally
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winter rally incar videoclip

Postby t16_rally » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:22 pm

i thougt you might like it, search for saabrally on youtube.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oGrPIWrOM0
rallying is life!

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Luke
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Postby Luke » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:55 pm

Welcome to the forum! You guys were flying in that video! I'd love to do a snow rally sometime, but in the US were arent allowed to run studded tires unforntunatly. Care to tell us some more details about the car? Got any pictures?

-Luke

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max
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Postby max » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:32 pm

I could never drive that fast on snow. :oops:
-Max
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Postby Crazyswede » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:02 pm

I am sure they were going faster then the camera depicts. But with a good set of snows we usually run in the 45mph - 65 mph range during John Buffum's all night winter rally.
I am the 73%

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speed

Postby t16_rally » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:51 pm

hi guys.

about the speed in the film, it maxes about 190km/H wich in mph should be round 115-120 i think. to find out the speed count the gears, in that film i think we do about 100-105mph as max. but i have revved it out between the trees at race, and that is awesom.

the 900 from the film was a car i rebuilt the engine on and fixed the suspention/wheel alignment on, and instead of taking money for the job, i borrowed it for some rallies early this year.
its a saab 900 sedan, with 2.5liter engine the specs are 2.5lit (9000 2.3 crank and bored to 94mm and ross pistons, all in a 2.1l engineblock) (its not just to throw it together, a lot of filing first)
the head is a ported H motor head with 46mm intakevalves and 38out. and the air comes in through double weber 48ts.

on the steering, there is a close ratio steering column, from www.sellholm.se

ap breaks in front with standard ventilated discs.

gearbox, is saabs close ratiorallygearbox (the big one) with ratio 7:34. i dont actually know the ratio of the frontchain on gearbox 30/31 i think. and of course a zf diffbrake.

suspention on the car is fully adjustable öhlins dampers (www.ohlins.se) and tires that we used on the film is pirelli (www.joki.se) klick on "tävlingsdäck" in the left column and down that site you see how they look.

inside there is magnum racing seats, 6point harnesses, fire-extinquisers(2), and ofcourse a rollcage.

check on www.teammatti.com and click on 900t16 then click "lånebilen"(means borrowedcar).

The other 900 you see in the site is mine, its ola strömbergs old rallycar, if you go to http://www.saabworks.com/rallycars/stromberg/ you can see the car in its early life. it will be rebuilded after todays regulations, and will be raced by me next year.

in the incar section of my homepage you will find two summerrallies incar where i codrive in a volvo 240, 2360cc and about 260hp

see you again guys

enjoy / Matti Johansson
rallying is life!

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Postby Geoff » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:58 pm

Hey Matti,
It looks like you guys in Sweden get all the good parts and construction knowledge! We here in the US don't have access to a lot of the really good parts and have to sometimes adapt parts that circle track people (nascar) and drag-racing has come up with.

I looked on the Selholm website and I couldn't find the quick ratio steering column. I wish I could read Swedish! Is it the column or is it the gears in the steering rack? I put a Howe steering quickener in my 99 and fabricated a custom steering column. http://www.howeperformance.com/accessories-new.htm part # 1110 at the bottom of the page
I have the 2:1 ratio with a 99 power steering rack which reduces steering to about 1.6 turns lock to lock.

When I needed a limited slip differential (diffbrake) I couldn't find a ZF or SAAB Sport and Rally one or a Quaife. My only options were to weld the differential or to use the Phantom Grip http://www.phantomgrip.com/ It works but not as good as a real limited slip differential. Luke was able to get the Selholm differential, which I would like to get sometime.

I of course wasn't able to get one of SAABs close ratio gearbox and from what I could tell from the Speedparts website the ratio of that gearset is long? Plus it is pretty expensive. I used a standard 5 speed gearbox with the 30/31 front chains. It provides a good ratio for people with a low budget!

What kind of modifications need to be made to make the 2.3 crank fit in the 2.1 block on a 900 transmission? Why does that engine use a 8 valve head instead of a 16 valve head?

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saab 2.5liters

Postby t16_rally » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:32 am

well this is a real saabbrew,
to get the 2.1 in´to 2.5
you will put the 9000 2.3 crank in, and bore it to 94mm.
there are 2 ways to do this, in sweden we have a company calles dalhems, and they sell mahle forged pistons that fit with standard rods, but there have to be some mods to it, the small rodbushing has to come down from 24, to 22 mm. the crank has to be milled down 12mm otherwise the pistons will meet the cranks counterwights. that was the cheap way, and because the mahles are heavy and the rods are "short" it will not rew properly(6500-7000) maybe, some durability problems has also occured. you also have to grind inside the motorblock to get the rod/block clearanse. it wont turn as stock!

the 900 i drove in the winterfilm has chevy h profiled sb rod with small journal (5,7") and very low and light ross pistons, regrinded crank (to fit rod) and slightly milled crank for weight issues. grinding inside block is also here oresent, but not as much.

and our regulations here is in our national groups up to 2 liters you can use(if homologated!!) 16 valve. but over 2 liters = 8valve. and here the only frontwheeldrive over 2 liters are saab 900. cool!!

enjoy guys, and dont hesitate to ask / Matti
rallying is life!

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Geoff
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Postby Geoff » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:48 am

does grinding the crankshaft help with the clearance around the gearbox too?

Are those Ross pistons made for a SB Chevy engine or are they custom made so that they rise to the top of the SAAB engine block when on the Chevy rods? How different are the journals on Chevy rod and what kind of modification needs to be done to make the bearings and journals fit the SAAB crank? I immagine that the light pistons help balance the engine better after the crank is re-ground and that the engine needs to be very carefully blanaced!

We have similar regulations for our "Group 2" class. An engine with 4 or more valves per cylinder is allowed to be up to 2 liters, an engine with 2 valves per cylinder is allowed to be up to 2.4 liters, and pushrod engines and diesel engines are allowed to be up to 3.0 liters. Luke's car is turbocharged so it is in a different class, "Group 5" and I don't think there are any engine size limits.

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Postby t16_rally » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:53 pm

Geoff wrote:does grinding the crankshaft help with the clearance around the gearbox too?
-Some grinding over the finalgear has to be done, and a thin steelplate is screwed in so the oils dont mix engine/gearbox.

Are those Ross pistons made for a SB Chevy engine or are they custom made so that they rise to the top of the SAAB engine block when on the Chevy rods?
-the ross pistons are custom made, with the oilring going through the wristpin hole, its a LOW piston!!

How different are the journals on Chevy rod and what kind of modification needs to be done to make the bearings and journals fit the SAAB crank?
-The crank is regrinded to chevysize, and the chevybearing is used.

I immagine that the light pistons help balance the engine better after the crank is re-ground and that the engine needs to be very carefully blanaced!
its balanced, but in 4cylinder engines with the journals 180degres apart, cyl 1+4 and 2+3 takes out eachother, so its fairly easy. we have a sort of very cheap rallycross class here, and they build 2.5liter engines without balancing, and they "do the job"

We have similar regulations for our "Group 2" class. An engine with 4 or more valves per cylinder is allowed to be up to 2 liters, an engine with 2 valves per cylinder is allowed to be up to 2.4 liters, and pushrod engines and diesel engines are allowed to be up to 3.0 liters. Luke's car is turbocharged so it is in a different class, "Group 5" and I don't think there are any engine size limits.
-ok, so both our saabs would be in group 5 then!
-how is luke finalposition in races, is the saab competitiv in the group??
-it would be a hell of a lot of fun to come over to you in the future and spread some gravel in a good rally, where can i find your rules?? and what is your best rally (webpage please).


answers in text above!

im so couriuse about youre races, where can i find videos, and results to look up on??

/ Matti
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Luke
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Postby Luke » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:57 pm

Luke does ok, when he finishes! :D We've had some awful bad luck, but every race we've been getting faster, and the car is more reliable than ever. The car is certainly VERY competative and we have beat a lot of scoobys and evos. I am hoping that this next season we will really see the fruits of our labor and maybe even win the championship for our class (we tied for 3rd this year). There are two competing sanctioning groups in the USA for rally, Rally America http://www.rally-america.com and National Auto Sport Association (NASA) http://www.nasarallysport.com . Rally America runs most of the bigger National events while NASA is focusing on the clublevel rallies, although they both have club and national series. Its really quite confusing. You should definatly come over and run an event, the Irish are pretty much ruling the american events these days. Stig came over last year and pretty much dominated the series taking overal wins in a group N car! If you have an FIA license they will except that as well, you wont need to get a separate license. Probably the best rally on the east coast is STPR. http://www.stpr.org/ Narrow twisty roads on smooth hard packed clay in a deep forest. The long stages climb mountain switchbacks with hair pin after hair pin. A very fun rally.

Blomquist at STPR:

Image
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Some other misc photos from STPR:



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Yours Truly: (the car has changed quite a bit since then)
Image :D :D
Last edited by Luke on Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Geoff
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Postby Geoff » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:35 am

These 2.5L engines are intriguing to me! Although we couldn't use them in Group 2 competition they could be used in Group 5 or our rallycrosses. Rallycross in the US is different from European Rallycross. It is similar to autocross (I don't know if you have that in Sweden), but on any surface other than tarmac. The events take place at a large dirt parking lot, field, or similar. The course is laid out with cones and one car at a time goes through the course. We take anywhere from four to ten runs through the course in a day. The time for all of the runs are added together and the car with the fastest overall time wins. I won the overall New England Regional Championship in the Modified Front Wheel Drive class with my 99 rally car in both 2003 and 2004 and would have won it if the current rules were in place in 2002 as well. I took the season off in 2006 and part of the season in 2005.

How would someone in the US order the proper Ross pistons, is there a part number? Do you have a part number for the Chevy rods?

How much power and torque do your cars have? Most of the cars in Group 5 are 4 cylinders with turbochargers (although there are the occasional Porsche and Mustang!) and can have a lot of power and torque. My car is a Group 2 car and is even underpowered for it's class! I take advice from Eric Carlsson and "never lift!"

I think a SAAB can be a competitive car in Group 2 or Group 5 (if it were turbocharged). The honest truth is that I think most of the driver's with SAABs that we have here could use some more experience, myself included. SAABs are more robust than many other cars we see in our events. There was one driver who owned a '78 99 EMS with the SAAB rally gear set, rally final drive gears, and limited slip. The engine was a modified H engine (2 liter, flat top pistons, large valves, maybe a few other tricks). Other than the car having a roll cage and skidplate it was almost stock. He won many events in Group 2 and became a "Seed 2" driver, meaning the finished many events in top placings and was given a high start order so that he started before many Open class cars (Open class at the time was basically four wheel drive with almost any modification allowed, even Group B cars). The car was sold, the engine, gearbox, and shell seperated and a few people on this message board own parts of it. I was suprised how basic the car was other than the engine and gearbox. It had the old SAAB rally springs, Bilstein shocks, stock seats with SAAB rally seat covers, stock 99 hubs and brakes, and not a whole lot else.

I think Luke is probably right about STPR being a good rally, at least on the east coast. I haven't run at STPR before but at a smaller rally on some of the same roads. Another event I've run a number of times is the Maine Forest Rally http://maineforestrally.com This is a really rough event with large rocks in the roads. I wouldn't recommend running in that one for someone coming from overseas. It would really be annoying to come all the way from Sweden and then DNF because you rip a wheel off. However it is a fun event!


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