Potential '73 99 LE Rally Car(?)

[DrewP]

My brother and I were both pleasantly surprised with the level of sophistication and the amount of knowledge on this board, and have come to the conclusion that the easiest and least expensive way to get a competitive package with a Saab is by rallying (which I am sure most of you know).

We have been playing with (mostly) C900 Turbos for street and autocross performance for almost 6 years, and know our way around the Saab Gremlins, but this would be our first 99.

http://northwestern.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2109881&l=116b8&id=2413466

One of our local European mechanics has had this car in his lot for a number of years, originally an Arizona car, with trouble in the transmission (original 4-speed). The output pinion is either stripped, or bearing housing has come apart, but in either case, will need work. We have a spare 5-speed.

It is about exactly what I was looking for, straight frame, almost zero rust, and what is there is just on the surface, and is pretty close to my house. He wants go get it out of his lot, and said he'd let me take it for $150.

I would really like tp pick this up, it would be a really fun build, but what do you guys think?

My brother and I both compete in Formula SAE at college, and are good welders, and I have designed and built the frame and suspension of our FSAE car, so we would be able to make our own cage, skidplate, suspension pieces, etc. Unfortunately, we are in Southern California, so no snow rallies or rivers, but there is a reasonable amount of competition in the summer out here.

So basically, this is a 'Throw out any relevant info' thread, as well a me introducing myself thread.

Like I said, I am very pleased with this forum, and am excited to be able to start contributing.

Some of my FSAE build stuff can be seen at:

http://northwestern.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2068396&l=b1026&id=2413466

Best,
Drew

[DeLorean]

looks like a great shell to start with. The only thing I would suggest is that for a first car it might not be a bad idea rather than to start with a 99, start with a 91-93 2.1 liter non sunroof 900. Like is often said, you will probably crash your first rally car... Also if you plan on moving up to a turbo, the simplicity of making a 900 into a turbo is far greater than making a 99 into a 99 turbo/16V. Either way, it's hard to go wrong as far as good starter cars but I bet a 900 would be less of a headache, even from the standpoint of finding radiators, grills and steering rack parts for example.

I would not let that 99 go though, it's in far too good of shape. Could always build that as a 2nd car after you are already running the 900!

[DrewP]

Thanks DeLorean! That would also make a lot of sense from the standpoint that we are already intimately familiar with the 900's.

I did not really get into that around where we live there are much more rally cross competitions, as opposed to staged rallies, which we would probably not be entering anyways, and there is no shortage of backroads desert, plus the Glammis off-road park, and a couple other big off roading places (we are in the desert near Palm Springs).

That being said, initially we would be doing a lot more Rally-X, where the courses are safer, and I'd get a good idea if it were something I was interested in persuing without dropping all the money into a staged comp without knowing what I was getting into.

In addition we have to pass CA emmissions tests every two years for model years '76 and newer, so a pre-smog car would be greatly to our advantage, especially a heavily modified one. I already have to convert three of our cars back to stock just to pass the smog test, and we don't have a trailer or suitable tow vehicle available yet, so I need something I can drive to races.

If I were to enter in the more stock classes, besides a cage, harnesses, tires, and safety equipment, what should I be expecting to have to do for entry level competition having never competed before?

Best,
Drew

[matt]

A lot of rally cross events can be run with just a helmet (at least ones that I've seen) so grab a car, make it reliable and go have some fun. Once your on the hook, it's over

[Jordan]

I'm going to have to disagree with DeLorean on this one. For several reasons.

1. You aren't necessarily going to crash. Most of the guys who take serious diggers on a daily basis are ones that are in the upper tier cars who can afford to. Luke, knock on wood, has been rallying his turbo'd car going into his 4th season with nary a serious accident.

2. It's a 99 not a Ferrari. Yes, they are getting harder to find, and sheet metal and glass is a bit rarer, but if you need something, you can usually get it if you look around for a pretty reasonable price.

3.a 99 is sooo much cooler than a 900 and more tossable. It also has some more built in front end rigidity.

4. Those 2.1 motors are notorious for blowing headgaskets and often suffer from block corrosion when SAAB changed the casting material.

5. You found a great shell for $150 (in Spring Green!)


Of course there are a few drawbacks to the 99. But, most are quite manageable. We actually have a "How to build a saab 99/900 into a rally car" manual that we have been collaboratively working on. It is looking 95% done, but we haven't released it yet. We will probably make a plan to get that out soon, it has just been on the back burner.

[Luke]

I know if you search around there are some threads here that discuss the 99 vs 900 a little. A 900 is a simpler choice these days, but my opinion is that if you already have a 99 and are mechanically inclined and able to fabricate a little, a 99 is a good choice too. Most of the car wrecking offs I see on stages on amongst the top 10 overall that are really pushing hard. Its a 71 though, so does it still have the 1.85 triumph motor? If so you definatly want to get rid of that thing and put a later real SAAB motor in the car. 8V is a good simple choice to start with.

[Luke]

Hmm I was just thinking about crashing first cars and I have the following to information to ponder:

Geoff Clark - Rallied SAAB 99 for several years and car was never wrecked
Mike White - Rallied SAAB 99 for several years and car was never wrecked
Luke Sorensen Rallied SAAB 99 for several years and car was never wrecked


John Groo- Rallied 900 for several years and car was shaped like banana
James Fox- Rallied 900 for several years and car was wrecked


Ut oh! According to my bad statisical skills and poor logic you 900 fellas better watch out!

[Jordan]

No matter what you choose, you'll have a great platform to work from. The other thing I was thinking about is that not grabbing that 99 because you might wreck it is silly. Even if it does get wrecked, is it better to go out in a blaze of glory after restored to a mean machine or to slowly rot away in some parking lot or worse, getting sent to the crusher?

Dropping in the SAAB B-motor with a later transmission, skid plate, up-rated springs/shocks and its rally-x ready. Some further strengthening, a cage and safety equip. and you have yourself enough rally car to have a butt load of fun. Not to oversimplify the workload, but in relative terms, it can be quite easy.

[DrewP]

In browsing through 99 boards last night I came across a passing comment that the earlier 99 shells were not as strong as the later ones, because of down-the-model-line structural improvements, can anyone shed light on what if any truth there is to that?

It does have the Triumph engine. The mechanic that owns the car now was telling me that the intake manifold from a Triumph T7 will mate up and let you run carbs easily, except I think he said that they usually came with Stromberg carbs, and in his words (Hungarian accented ones....), 'That Stromberg is a stupid carb...'

I am gonna go check out a new pick-a-part yard in our valley right now, he said there were a few, so I will report back.

Totally agree on not letting the car just sit and rot! Which is bad for me, because we totally do not need another hobby right now!

[Crazyswede]

its possible the earlier shells are not as strong as the later ones due to increases in safety and crumple zone technology. However, if you are building a thorough cage for the car it isnt going to matter much at all.

[paulh]

well from the looks of those pictures, its allready got a real saab motor, the Triumph ones look quite a bit different than that. it's also got k-jet, and it definitely shouldnt, so its a later motor swap for sure. thats a good thing though, since theyre much more reliable than the triumph engines. should make a good car for your purposes, and the price sounds great! now go get it!

Paul

[Jordan]

The trick set up for N/A power is to use twin DCOE webers or ITB with megasquirt/FI on the SAAB 8v B-motor (which it looks like you have) . Manifolds are available, in fact we have Per from GRM selling one for a very good price of $250(?) in the for sale thread. The nice thing about the 99 is that the suspension/brake components from all 900s are bolt on ('71 may need some fabrication for the rear suspension points).

[Jordan]

Heh, you may need to change your post title. From the pic of the vin numbers its a '73 not a '71. Explains the B-engine and the bumpers not being chrome.

99732028833

Decoded means:

SAAB 99
1973
Trollhättan line #2
Serial # 028833

[fiasco]

Luke...

Mike's car was never crashed in competition, but ask him about practicing with the Jalava sisters....

And by the time that car was finished with Tall Pines 03, the door gaps were, um, interesting.

The car was retired because the shell was tweaked and the cage was a bolt in Safety Devices unit that was nearing the end of usefulness in any sanctioning body.

--Andrew

[paulh]

Heh, you may need to change your post title. From the pic of the vin numbers its a '73 not a '71. Explains the B-engine and the bumpers not being chrome.

99732028833

Decoded means:

SAAB 99
1973
Trollhättan line #2
Serial # 028833

]

yup that definitely explains it! but not the k-jet, or did the LE's that year come with that? i thought it was either carb or djet that year.

Paul