63 Bullnose Rally Project

[63stroker]

Thanks for confirming my thoughts on studs. They've been added to my list of things to do.


I have not found any disc brakes cars yet to supply me with rotors, calipers etc, and the 68 that may be coming my way has drums. I've already bought NOS front wheel cyclinders and am having high friction pads installed on the shoes so I feel I committed to drums for this season.


Is there a way to mount the three carb set up off this 68 to my block?
I've heard they are different but does someone make an adapter or aftermarket manifold?

In addition, this 68 has solid red taillights, not yellow and red like everything else I've seen. Was solid red eurospec or just a cheap replacement from long ago?

Again....thanks for everyones help!

[modernbeat]

Stick that entire 850cc three-carb motor AND transmission in your '63 chassis. Ditch the shaft driven fan while you're at it. Yes, some cars used electric fans in the '60s - so don't sweat your Historic status. Richard M will confirm.

Switch to studs. Drill out the threads in your drums and use press in studs.

Sell the "cool" taillights to a buffer and run the cheap tailights on the rallycar.

Yer Pal -

[RichardM]

Well, neither Rally America nor NRS have strict historic classes. But from the various internet discussions I have seen, it seems that any modification in the "spirit" of the era will be acceptable. And at Rallye de Paris, we may just go by the body shell, i.e. a SAAB 96 body over Saab 9-2x (Saabaru) running gear might be accepted.

[63stroker]

Yikes! Too bad historic cars aren't more appreciated in Rally events.

If "spirit" of the era is all that matters then a Pertronix will be added to my list.

I'm going to try to keep this car true to form and keep the fan shaft, lame brakes and silly column shifter. After all, if I was serious about winning twelve dollar trophies and collecting points, I'd be spending my money on a more competitive car. There are dozens of models out there that would be easier to build, be more competitive and have a higher re-sale value when you're done but few have the history, styling and quirkiness of an early Saab.
I'm in this to build a car , finish a few events and have just as much fun as the guys spending 5 times as much.

[Crazyswede]

unfortunately there just isn't much incentive to run a historic car these days. Given the huge investment involved most people choose newer cars or modernize the old ones...nothing wrong with that. There are some events like Targa Newfoundland that have historic classes. I suspect that the historic classes may be more prominent in other parts of the world.

[Sean Tennis]

I would stick with the wheel bolts, the stock steel wheels are very easy to install and center themselves on the hub/drum. If you're going vintage/historic then do it right, other wise it is just a look thing and what's the point of that, take the car for what it is and enjoy it!

Main thing is to get the car together and running.

Did you find the axle part, I was at my shop over the weekend and think I have the early part if you're still in need.

Any photo's of the bumper and chrome? I'm interested in where the work was done and the costs involved?

[RichardM]

Acually, for more pure vintage, but not absolutely pure (as in if the vehicle did not actually compete it is not eligible even if it is identical to the vehicles that did compete) I would suggest contacting the Corinthian Vintage Auto Racing club, CVAR. In addition to running a few rallies, you may be able to run races with the same car.
ETA: Here is their web site - http://www.corinthianvintagerace.com/

[modernbeat]

Does anyone know what steering wheel adapters fit the 96? Looking for Grant 3-bolt and/or MOMO or Nardi 6-bolt styles.

[modernbeat]

Jeff, people need an update. Post some pics of the engine-trans-column swap, the dash swap, and whatever other destruction you've been up to. Post some pics of the smashed up steering wheel we're going to cut down into an adapter.

BTW: Recaros should be at your place soon.

[modernbeat]

It's been a long time since Jeff updated this, so I'll do it.

As of last weekend, the late two-stroke motor is back from the maestro race motor builder and is sitting on the bench waiting installation. Yes, we're installing a late stroker in a bullnose. The carbs have been rebuilt and the manifold has been port matched to the porting on the block. We expect around 85hp from it.

We've patched all the rust in the floor and added a double skinned floor between the engine compartment and the seats. We cut out the soft rockers, plug welded 2x2" square tubing into the rockers and plated over the open rockers - they're stiff enough to jack up the car at any point on the rocker. We built a full FIA cage with an additional dash bar. We cut out the original seat mounts and added 2x2" square tubing across the car from rocker to rocker in front of the seats and plated the floor below the seats. We reinforced the rear suspension pickup points, the front towers, plated the shock mounts, and built additional stiffeners to put the front shocks in double shear. And we painted it all with a brush!

We chased down a leaky hard brake line and ended up replacing all the hard lines. That was after the stainless flexible lines and all the wheel cylinders, rebuilding the master cylinder, and installing racing brake shoes.

Jeff had the tank restored and we replaced the hard line to the front of the engine compartment where it mates to an electric pump with a spare mounted right next to it. We boxed in the trunk and package tray to close in the gas tank. We mounted a shelf over the tank and put in straps to hold down one or two spare tires. The rest of the gear - spill kit, tool box, triangles, tow rope and first aid kit still have to be tied down in the trunk.

To match the skinny wheels we chose Mickey Thompson Mini-Mag tires. Not modern rally tires. We'll see how they work out and are prepared to groove them if needed.

Eye nuts have been installed front and rear as tow loops. The three brackets up front and one in back hold Cibie Oscar lights. Vintage convex Cibie headlights took the place of the junky sealed beams.

All the suspension arms and links have been boxed or plated and all new bushings installed. Jeff installed Bilstein shocks up front but we haven't been able to find them for the rear - so it's KYB for now. Anyone have any Bilsteins for the rear of a Bullnose?

The muffler and exhaust manifold has been jet-hot coated and a new exhaust and mounts have been installed. Next is to tap the manifold for the EGT sensors - one in each runner for tuning and a single in the downpipe.

One of Jeff's pals that's good with old paint mixed up his magic potion and removed all the surface rust and smoothed out the paint so it's not quite so crusty looking. The worst section of the bumper was rechromed and the wheels were rattlecanned. Special touch - and family tradition - Jeff used airplane valve caps.

I bought a Terratrip 404 and we're not sure how/where to mount it. I also bought a PS Engineering airplane intercom amp and a pair of David Clark headsets to gut for helmet intercom parts.

We've still got a lot to finish before the Paris Rally after Thanksgiving. Install, tune and break in the engine - nut and bolt the car a few more times - readjust the brakes - install the seats and belts - reinstall the wiring and wire up the new starter button, horn and lights - install the tie-downs in the trunk - wiring the intercom and computer.

[Geoff]

Wow, you guys have made some great progress in a short amount of time! It sounds like the shell should be very stiff. nice!

I've had the opportunity to co-drive for Bruce Turk in his '61 96 twice in the past month or so as the course opening car for some rallies. With that full FIA cage things must be pretty cramped in there! The car I was in was built to full Historic equivalency and only had a roll bar (so it would be legal for some events), a stock passenger seat and the Sport and Rally driver's seat. One thing Bruce did on his car that you may want to do is to add an upright piece of sheet metal to the right of the driver's feet. This keeps the co-drivers feet from sliding under the pedals. With the tight confines its easy to play 'footsie'.

I think you mean 58hp, not 85 right? The first rally I rode with Bruce in he had a 750cc engine with the S&R intake, single carb, and S&R expansion chamber. I think he said 45hp. The next rally he had installed an 750 block bored with 850 pistons and a Monte Carlo 850 crank, he was guessing 5 to 10% more power. The car was quick through the corners and on flat ground but uphill was still a bit of a snore. Suspension was custom springs from MSS and I think Bilsteins that were valved to match for rallying (except he forgot to change the tarmac shocks off before the first event but the car survived! ). He has also converted the car to front discs and the brakes felt pretty good. Unfortunately we bent the stock rear axle on a light slide into a rock or a berm on the side of the stage while going relatively slow and that ended our second rally.

Those tires are interesting and they match the size of the car really well. I'm really interested to hear how they work. I've run a 145 or 155 series ice tire on my 99 for a winter rally and for a bunch of rallycrosses where the ground was really soft (loam at fairgrounds). They worked really well for that. I think the car weighs around 2100lb and yours should be around 1800lb. I also like the Michelin 14-62-15" rally tires (M series I think?) for rallies as it is built more for a smaller car. Bruce was running them on his 96 and they seemed good. It is difficult to find a skinny 15" rally tire.

Can you remove the glove box and put the computer in there? A smaller computer would be nice because of the lack of interior space. An old Halda fits nicely under the dash

One thing you could do about Bilsteins for the rear is to call up Bilstein in California. I've spoken with a guy there a few times, I think in the rebuild or motorsport rebuild department. He found a shock for me that was similar length and layout (dual eyelet) that would fit on the front of a 99 (shock from a S-10, Blazer, etc.). If he can find you a shock that was the right size and layout you could buy some (possibly used?) and have Bilstein re-valve them to match your purpose and spring rate.

Keep us posted!

[modernbeat]

I think you mean 58hp, not 85 right? The first rally I rode with Bruce in he had a 750cc engine with the S&R intake, single carb, and S&R expansion chamber. I think he said 45hp. The next rally he had installed an 750 block bored with 850 pistons and a Monte Carlo 850 crank, he was guessing 5 to 10% more power.

The motor is a built-to-the-hilt 890cc with a sport crank, Venola pistons, wicked porting and three carbs. Jeff is looking for carb jets right now. We expect it to last two seasons (we hope).

Good idea about the foot-box for the co-driver. I bought a pair of Recaro Pole Position seats and it's a tight squeeze for the two of us and the seats inside the caged car. I'm 6'3" and Jeff is 6'1".

We would have liked to convert to discs but didn't find the parts. We did use the better drum setup off a '66 along with the transmission, block and head.

Another pic of the cage. Anyone have any hints on doing something with the window winders that ended up behind a cage bar? Oops.

[Geoff]

I bought a pair of Recaro Pole Position seats and it's a tight squeeze for the two of us and the seats inside the caged car. I'm 6'3" and Jeff is 6'1".

Another pic of the cage. Anyone have any hints on doing something with the window winders that ended up behind a cage bar? Oops.

Is this Rally America or NASA? I think in RA you can have fixed polycarbonate windows but check the rules. Otherwise open the door to get at the winder? :-P

[matt]

Another pic of the cage. Anyone have any hints on doing something with the window winders that ended up behind a cage bar? Oops.

Could you swap the window mechanism from side to side? I figure it's *possible* to do so and that would move the crank. You could also do a power window setup for added weight and complexity!

[modernbeat]

Is this Rally America or NASA? I think in RA you can have fixed polycarbonate windows but check the rules. Otherwise open the door to get at the winder? :-P

We're considering poly windows, but that's not very "Historic".

Right now we're using the open the door method.

I posted an update at Rally Anarchy on the build and our first rally. First for the driver. First for the codriver. First for the car.

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,21045