A simple cyl head swap question

[happyandy]

I will be installing a 2.1 head onto my my 2.0 b202 very soon. which head gasket should I use, 2.1 or 2.0? Is there a brand of gasket that I should use, or one that I should avoid? projected power out put after all my planned mods are completed will be about 300 on the crank. I am keeping the 2.1 intake cam, and plan to use a exh cam from an '85 turbo (if I can find one).
If I give the 2.1 head a valve job (3 angle cut to the seats) will I have a problem with the stem heights becoming to high for the hyd lifters?
Is there any thing else that I need to know about this swap?
I am looking forward to hearing yuor opinions and insights.

[Jordan]

What turbo are you going to be using to achieve your projected power? What about fuel management?

[DeLorean]

Elring gaskets are fine, those are the ones eeuroparts sells. The gasket you want to use is a 2.0 liter gasket. The swap is just as straightforward as doing a head on any C-900. Everything bolts up, everything fits.

[DeLorean]

Oh, and if you are also intending to use the 2.1 manifold, be sure to also use the 2.1 fuel rail and FPR bracket as those are different too.

[happyandy]

What turbo are you going to be using to achieve your projected power? What about fuel management?

Well I should note that I am not shooting for that Power level in one shot. I want to start with just the 2.1 top end and the cams that I mentioned already. I have the 2.1 intake and injectors.
For the next step I also have a Jak Stoll stage 2 chip and a set of red injectors (bosch 0280150431). I spoke to Mr Stoll on the phone and he said that this combination with the addition of a large fmic and a t3 with a 60 compressor wheel and .63 turbine housing should be able to make 300 crankshaft hp or 250 bhp, and have a usable power band. (He also said the factory FP would keep up). That doesn't sound far-fetced to me.
This afternoon I went to visit a local turbo building guru (John Burris of Wilmington, DE), I gave him those turbo specs and He thought that turbo would be to big and laggy for a 2.0. I don't know enough to disagree with either of these guys, what do you guys think?
Also to make this build a little simpler I was thinking of using a large smic with exhaust fans instead of a fmic. This, I think, would be easier to install and would definitly have less length and volume of intercooler pipe.
I am not building this engine to be a show piece or a dyno pleasing wonder, but a reliable and drivable engine for my first purpose built compition car.(see my post in the intoductions section for my compition plans)

[Raul]

Well I should note that I am not shooting for that Power level in one shot. I want to start with just the 2.1 top end and the cams that I mentioned already. I have the 2.1 intake and injectors.

make shure you use 2.0L head gasket and 2.1L gasket for intake to head gasket. 2.1L injectors are 19lbs smaller than turbo ones, just junk them.

For the next step I also have a Jak Stoll stage 2 chip and a set of red injectors (bosch 0280150431). I spoke to Mr Stoll on the phone and he said that this combination with the addition of a large fmic and a t3 with a 60 compressor wheel and .63 turbine housing should be able to make 300 crankshaft hp or 250 bhp, and have a usable power band. (He also said the factory FP would keep up). That doesn't sound far-fetced to me.

Jak Stoll did not know what he was doing when programming chips, too many people got bad programs. After viewing one of his programs for 2.4LH I saw what was wrong, his tuning software was corrupting the bin files. And also he does not do much to programm, he only scales it for bigger injectors, ups the rev limit and eliminates the fuel cut. T3 with 60compressor will be too laggy, I had one and it sucked. 300HP no way without aftermarket fuel management that controls ignition.

[Crazyswede]

not sure what the red injectors are but I remember that back in the days of SPG9 they sold "matched" sets of 24# Bosch injectors for about $180 a set. The kicker was that the 24# injectors are actually ford motor sport injectors and you could buy a set of 8 of them from the jegs catalog for the same price.

Be sure to do a little intake/gasket/head matching to the intake ports for good smooth flow. Minimize your inter cooler tubing length and bends and try to go with an inter cooler that has a good flow rate.

[happyandy]

make shure you use 2.0L head gasket and 2.1L gasket for intake to head gasket. 2.1L injectors are 19lbs smaller than turbo ones, just junk them.

Where can I find a table that charts injector part numbers and flow rates?
surely some like that is out there some where.

Jak Stoll did not know what he was doing when programming chips, too many people got bad programs. After viewing one of his programs for 2.4LH I saw what was wrong, his tuning software was corrupting the bin files. And also he does not do much to programm, he only scales it for bigger injectors, ups the rev limit and eliminates the fuel cut. T3 with 60compressor will be too laggy, I had one and it sucked. 300HP no way without aftermarket fuel management that controls ignition.[/quote]

Well I am going to try the chip any way, If it sucks Raul can feel free to tell me that He told me so. If this doesn't work what other fuel managment options are out there besides going to megasquirt?
As for the turbo I think I will pay annother visit to the local guy and realy try to pick his brain a bit more. He seemed to think the .63 turbine might be ok, but the 60 compressor was way to big, but he didn't offer an alternative compressor size. What do you guys use and/or recomend?

[Raul]

forget the old T3 stuff. You need to go eather with bigger mitsubishi turbo or ball bearing garrett GT if you want minimum lag and plenty of solid boost.

[Jordan]

I'd have to agree with Raul on this one, I mean the t3s are great reliable turbos...but if you want to get those performance numbers plus drivability, you are going to have to go with something a little more modern.

[Crazyswede]

[airsweden]

I think that jak is coming at the issue from a different angle than some of us. I think he's into drag racing and thus looking for different results than me at least. He had also suggested that I would do better with a laggy turbo but I think only to keep from breaking stuff. He reasoned that power coming on smooth and steady would be better than the big bang. Thing is, for me I don't need a ton of hp anyway. If I could get a reliable 220, that's right there all the time...... then I'd be doing great. As is I have a mitsu turbo, 2.1 head/intake, 30# ford racing injectors, 3.0 bar fpr, SAABWORKS APC mod and jak's stage 2 chip in my 1980 99 with a stock IC. I sorta doubt that it is giving much more than 175. I actually take jak's chip out when racing becuase while it does a great job improving gas milage to and from races, the car runs too lean once I've been out there 10 mins and built up some real heat. I figured out that I could keep the detonation down better with the stock ecu. I also notched the little arm in the dist for adv/retard hoping it would help under full boost (15 psi) but the thing just doesn't like his chip after I'm out there hammering on it for a little. I think it goes without saying that a bigger/better IC would help but for some venues/classes that is not an option.

Josh Teresco

[Geoff]

Someone posted that the SAABWORKS APC mod gets rid of the knock detection circuit. I haven't looked into it but if that's true then maybe that is part of your knocking problem you're having...

[airsweden]

After hooking up the modded box we did some crude testing. Just by banging on the block with a drift and hammer we could still get the APC valve to click. My issue is that the engine is getting lots of detonation with jak's chip because I think its intended to lean out and compensate for big ass injectors. I don't think my 30# and stock IC is enough for the chip design. The APC still hears the knock and adjusts accordingly. Halfway into a race my car is nearly powerless, if I touch the throttle I hear it ping and the APC backs it off. With the stock ecu I get horrible fuel economy but it seems to keep it cooler longer when racing. I think in my case its a matter of better injectors and IC or just try to run less boost. 20 psi might be a little agressive for what i'm doing.

[paulh]

After hooking up the modded box we did some crude testing. Just by banging on the block with a drift and hammer we could still get the APC valve to click. My issue is that the engine is getting lots of detonation with jak's chip because I think its intended to lean out and compensate for big ass injectors. I don't think my 30# and stock IC is enough for the chip design. The APC still hears the knock and adjusts accordingly. Halfway into a race my car is nearly powerless, if I touch the throttle I hear it ping and the APC backs it off. With the stock ecu I get horrible fuel economy but it seems to keep it cooler longer when racing. I think in my case its a matter of better injectors and IC or just try to run less boost. 20 psi might be a little agressive for what i'm doing.

I'm fairly sure his stage 2 chip is for the red trionic5 injectors, theyre #35 so yeah, thats probably your issue right there.

Paul