who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

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Sam
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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby Sam » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:54 pm

I'm bringing this one back up again. I'm thinking of putting a now-ubiquitous T7 head on my b202. I want to know how you guys deal with the lack of a distributor mount. I know some of the 9-5s had a cam driven brake booster, but most have a plate sealing up that hole. Is there a trick to getting a distributor on there without changing the camshaft to b202?

I suppose you could run a T5/T7 ECU, in which case the DI and computer figure out the cam position, but thats not the answer i'm looking for.
There is no such thing as too low or too stiff.

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby allessence » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:30 pm

So, I started this project 2 years ago. Maybe 3 now.


I ported the head so the ports are huge. Not good for low end torque unless you have really long runners.


Hence the reason why I haven't done anything. I've been tooling up last few years.


here are some pictures.

This is a ported 2.0 vs the 2.3L #2 picture is the gaskets stacked up to show the sizing difference between 2.3, 2.1 and 2.3 ported.

ImageImage

Inside diam of runners 2.0" and shooting for 17-22 inches long.

I am very sick of blowing transmissions. I bought an 2000 Audi A4 Quattro to pull the AWD from but decided the car was worth to much to tear apart. So, looking for another one. Also, I got a bunch of poop threatening to install it in an original SPG.

Here is the link to more pictures if you are some interested.

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q90/ ... %20Polish/

I will be starting production on the intake manifold in the next few weeks.
Okay, so I'm female and like SAAB's go figure. Mind you, I like a good set of strappy sandal's just about as much though they don't take you thru the corners as fast. LOL

Rosie: http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showt ... =Jennifers

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Jordan
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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby Jordan » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:14 pm

Sam wrote:I suppose you could run a T5/T7 ECU, in which case the DI and computer figure out the cam position, but thats not the answer i'm looking for.


So are you looking for the wrong answer? :lol: The hardest modification as jennifer pointed out is getting the manifold to line up and welding up the timing chain hole.

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby Hans » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:05 pm

I don't recall if I've posted this here before, but you can cover the holes without welding. The machine shop I took my T5 head to simply milled out a couple slots, epoxied in some aluminum, and skimmed to match the rest of the head surface. This is not structural stuff here: we're just trying to cover up the holes. Cost me $100 or so and has held up fine for going on ~5 years.

Image

It doesn't look flush at one point but it is -- something weird with the flash, I guess...

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby Jordan » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:44 pm

Hans wrote:I don't recall if I've posted this here before, but you can cover the holes without welding. The machine shop I took my T5 head to simply milled out a couple slots, epoxied in some aluminum, and skimmed to match the rest of the head surface. This is not structural stuff here: we're just trying to cover up the holes. Cost me $100 or so and has held up fine for going on ~5 years.


It doesn't look flush at one point but it is -- something weird with the flash, I guess...


Boy having some of those CNC cut and available seems like it would be a good seller. t5 heads must be everywhere now.

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby allessence » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:55 pm

yup, I wasn't sure how much to weld in/out so made it slightly larger. figured I would just shave off the extra.

At the time all I had was a mig welder and as you can see from the pictures pretty ugly though more than strong enough.

As to CNCing up a few. If I remember it only took maybe 20min to cut and weld these pieces in.

I now have a tig welder so I would tig them in and it would take less time.
Okay, so I'm female and like SAAB's go figure. Mind you, I like a good set of strappy sandal's just about as much though they don't take you thru the corners as fast. LOL



Rosie: http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showt ... =Jennifers

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby IronJoe » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:35 pm

I'm starting my T7 head swap as well. Got one from a 2001 9-5 Aero with 70k.


Currently I am concerned with the valve springs - there are upgraded springs available for the T5 heads, but not the T7 cars. Has anyone seen upgraded T7 valve springs anywhere?


I have seen Gorper's modifications in person and I definitely am going the same route, except for welding in the aluminum piece instead of epoxy. Just in case ;-)

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby Jon1 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:27 am

I have also been thinking about a T5 head on a classic 900. I am trying to get my head around all the modifications required. This is what I have come up with, so far. Please let me know what else needs to be done.
1. Modify head to match timing chain cover or modify timing chain cover to match head
..A. Modifying the head should allow using classic 900 head gasket
..B. Modifying the timing chain cover would require NG900 / T5 head gasket
2. Modify intake manifold, including port matching to head
..A. Cut stock manifold (2.0 or 2.1), cut T5 manifold and port match and weld together.
....1. Fuel rail mounting modification
..B. Use stock manifold (2.0 or 2.1) and weld up / relocate mounting holes, port match still required
3. Adjustable timing gears? T5 head is shorter / thinner than classic 900 head.
..A.Chain tensioner modifications?
4. Modify mounting for power steering pump and A/C idler (if you still use A/C) or modify head to use stock brackets
5. Modify right side motor mount bracket (or modify head to use stock brackets)

What else am I missing?

As the combustion chamber is different, can someone tell me the volume of the T5 head? I know the B201 is 48cc, the B202 (1985 only) is 42cc, the B202 (86-93/94) is 46cc and the B212 / B234 is 48cc.

Editing this post to add what I have done.

Modified 2.0 classic 900 turbo intake manifold; cut off flange, welded T5 flange to it, with some port matching and removed the bosses for the injectors because the injectors mount on a different angle on the T5 flange.
Drilled/tapped and faced the intake manifold flange to accept the coolant temperature sensor.
Modified the head; welded pieces to match up with the stock timing chain cover, will still use a standard head gasket, welded bosses for power steering and A/C idler pulley mounts.
Modified passenger side motor mount to bolt to existing mounting bosses on T5 head.
Modified the fuel rail mounting brackets.
Relocated the fuel pressure regulator to the other side of the fuel rail because there was no longer room for it in the stock location.
Modified the air idle control valve mounting to clear the fuel rail supply line.
Last edited by Jon1 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby squaab99t » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:13 am

I measured 45.1 cc on the T5.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2158&hilit=Engine%2C+rebuild+Squaab99t
I'll have to study your list more closely, but at first glance looks like about right.

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby Jon1 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:04 pm

I modified a stock 900 turbo 2.0 intake manifold to match up to the Trionic head by cutting the flange off and welding on the flange that I cut from the intake manifold that was on the T5 head.
Image

Image

I welded a couple of pieces to the head, rather than modify the timing chain cover
Image
Image
I milled flat spots for some round bar for the power steering and A/C idler mounts
Image
Image
Image
Jon

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby allessence » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:45 pm

Nice mill, What brand and size?

Nice work on the head..

It has been awhile now since I started the project..

Sadly I got so sick of blowing 4th gear I de tuned Rosie and basically put the head which is fully ported and polished up in the shed.. De tuned meaning non ported head..

The advent of moving to an AWD drive train is the only way I would put as much power back into a SAAB.. Rosie really became more of a race car than a daily driver though I used to average about 27Mpg unless on the throttle..

I was going to make a custom intake manifold.. I might still do it if I can ever be inspired enough..

The later design intake plenum is actually a better design vs the 900 series.. Number 4 or is it number 1 gets slightly less air flow on the 202..

I probably shouldn't even make these suggestions as I'm sure you got it figured out, but I can't help myself.. If you port the head take the ports up.. They will clean up great. Also leave one side just a we bit smaller...
Okay, so I'm female and like SAAB's go figure. Mind you, I like a good set of strappy sandal's just about as much though they don't take you thru the corners as fast. LOL



Rosie: http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showt ... =Jennifers

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby Jon1 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:12 pm

Hey Jennifer, the mill is a DoAll model 200S, 9" x 49" table. I got it for free from work (where I retired from after 41 years) because they were going to throw it away. I had almost no experience using a lathe or a mill before I got it, so I am still learning. It is fun to think up projects and then just do them.
Are you still driving Rosie? You should come to the eEuroparts event on May 1st, I would like to meet you.
Jon

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby squaab99t » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:23 pm

I'd say that is much better than some gold watch. Now you have machines that make parts smaller and a welder that makes parts bigger.

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby Jon1 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:26 pm

I have been setting up for retirement for quite a few years. It is finally coming together. I spend many hours in my shop everyday. Of coarse, having five classic 900 turbos on the road keeps me busy enough without the project car that I am working on.
Jon

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Re: who all is running T5 heads on b202's??

Postby allessence » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:02 am

Jon1 wrote:Hey Jennifer, the mill is a DoAll model 200S, 9" x 49" table. I got it for free from work (where I retired from after 41 years) because they were going to throw it away. I had almost no experience using a lathe or a mill before I got it, so I am still learning. It is fun to think up projects and then just do them.
Are you still driving Rosie? You should come to the eEuroparts event on May 1st, I would like to meet you.


What a great setup.. An excellent way to spend time in retirement.. Now you can really spend your free time making them SAAB's go like lightening..

Looks like you are chugging away at the learning experience.. There are tons of great video on youtube..

This guy rocks..
https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

I still have Rosie but she is in need of some TLC.. She needs some body work and a new exhaust.. Poor girls been sitting for 3 years.. I made the mistake of taking her to a bad inspection station and they read me the riot act..

I'm hopeful that once I get the shop up I can devote some time to her to make her great again..

If things go well I might come down May 1 with the 77 BMW R100RS..I have a set of Krauser 4valve heads I'm rehabbing now.. Not a SAAB but still fun to drive..

Sadly I'm down to a 1960 standard, 85spg, and the 91 Rosie.. I sold the GT850's and all parts to a couple guys from Sweden, and I sold my Monte 850 (which I wish I hadn't) to a guy in Wisconsin..
Okay, so I'm female and like SAAB's go figure. Mind you, I like a good set of strappy sandal's just about as much though they don't take you thru the corners as fast. LOL



Rosie: http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showt ... =Jennifers


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